I’ve posted the original post from the KT member in comments under an earlier article, but now Duncan Oldham has spluttered a response of sorts so I suppose I should comment in more detail. (And just as I go to post this I notice “Chapeau de Soleil” has made an eerily accurate prediction about Dunk’s response too.)
I’m talking about the Independent LFC Fans’ Survey that appeared on fifteen Liverpool FC fan sites on Friday. See here: “Independent LFC Fans’ Survey (This is Anfield)” for one of the original announcements. All the sites involved posted the release at approximately the same time. It’s not designed to represent just one site or just one view. It’s designed to represent many views. Whichever extreme you come from, you’ll have a voice if you want it. The fifteen listed sites represent quite a broad spectrum of Liverpool fans – I suppose the only fans not represented are those who don’t buy fanzines or use the net.
Dunk clearly wasn’t asked, for obvious reasons. To those new to this blog, the obvious reasons are that every other Liverpool FC website is happy to co-exist with other LFC fansites. A person who’ll feel right at home on one site might feel out of place on another. But they are all LFC fan sites. They all cater to their own audiences. They all acknowledge each other. Those of us who visit more than one forum will be familiar with a post on “Forum A” talking about a post on “Forum B”. I’ve seen inter-forum rows, but usually it’s a couple of wind-up merchants having fun with the easily wound-up.
But every one of those sites has, I am sure, spoken of the cons carried out by Duncan Oldham and his family using the “Koptalk” name. Stealing from LFC fans, running hate campaigns against LFC players, lie after lie about their contacts at the club.
And although he knew about the announcement, he didn’t want to acknowledge it. Dunk will have seen it on the other sites – he visits them regularly to see what he can steal. He visits this blog a few times a day too, and it’s already been mentioned here more than once. Despite his decision to ignore it, his members will have seen it, there’s little doubting that. Many of them still use the News Now service that Koptalk was once part of. Not all his members are loyal to only his site. And it raises a question for many of them – why would Koptalk be excluded from an initiative that spans FIFTEEN LFC websites?
A member posted the message, although he took care to censor it a little first. He knew he would be banned if he dared link to any of Dunk’s “rival” sites. It’s in the AUP (Acceptable Use Policy) that only the mainstream media can be linked to. But even his censorship wasn’t enough – Dunk’s paranoia filter also strips out words like “gmail” and symbols like “@” just in case anyone tries to put their email address on a post. Dunk calls it “spam prevention”, but in reality it’s just part of his policy to stop his members from speaking to each other without first going through him. You can’t make friends on Koptalk unless Dunk approves it first. There are no Private Message facilities on Koptalk – Dunk disabled them. Even moderators can’t look at user profiles, because Dunk doesn’t trust them. He won’t even allow mods to see IP addresses now – because it would prove to the mods that yes, “Informer” really is Dunk. Rich T would be at his wits’ end if he was to see that yes, Dunk really was posting under numerous usernames. He’d even start doubting the famous text message. And as for Rich T’s belief a year ago that Steven Gerrard was a member of Koptalk (yes, Rich T really said that on the site, really believed it) well I think he’d be in tears. I just hope he doesn’t finally find out that Katie is only 17 and has a boyfriend already on the same day he finds out that Dunk really is a liar.
Here’s the member’s message. Now he gets it wrong by calling it “Official” and “from the owners”. It isn’t, it’s independent and from the FIFTEEN LFC fansites listed in the real message…..
#187059 – Today at 06:18 PM
Official fan survey from the owners
For some reason Koptalk hasnt been included. But here are the email addresses to write yr comments:
Independent LFC Fans’ Survey
By LFC Fans’ Survey
In the two weeks running up to the final in Athens, discussion amongst the owners and admins of a number of fanzines and websites led to the idea of launching an independently-run fans’ survey.
The intention of the survey would be to gather ideas on a range of fan issues and then inform the club on how the fans feel it could improve in these areas.
The idea isn’t for this to be an ongoing project with specific long term aims, but more a snapshot of the current state of the club’s “customer interaction”, hopefully leading to the opening of a dialogue with the new owners. They can then carry the ideas forward themselves and hopefully introduce improvements which benefit us all.
To conduct the survey we’ve created a number of email addresses where ideas, problems and issues can be sent. We will then collate them, publish a summary of the views we receive on all the participating sites and make the results presentable to the club.
The initial focus, based purely on time, will be the loyalty card system. What we’d like is for fans to put some thoughts on how they would like “loyalty” operated – everyone is aware of the furore over the way tickets were allocated for the final in Athens and we feel this is our chance to speak with the club to get a system the majority of fans think is clear and fair, and hopefully get it in place for next season. You may feel the current system is fine, or you may want major changes – we are sure there’ll be lots of different ideas sent to us. And we don’t want to restrict this just to the way the final tickets were allocated, but for it to also encompass the whole issue of loyalty across all the competitions through the season, so your views and ideas are welcome.
Email us with your views on the loyalty scheme to:
The events in Athens has inevitably generated much discussion amongst fans – as such rather than dealing with this ourselves, we thought it worth pointing fans in the direction of the Football Supporters Federation who are investigating the ticketing shambles and are requesting individual accounts from fans. We’d urge everyone with strong views on what went on to get in touch:
They’ve also told us they’re thinking about organising a meeting in 2/3 weeks time in Liverpool on the Athens issue and will get in contact with more information when it is available.
Moving on from there, as well as the loyalty issue we also want to collate ideas (personal examples would be great) of how the club can improve in other areas. For example fans often find the club shop is short of items; maybe you unhappy about the way the ticket office sells tickets by phone/online; do you get frustrated when seeing tickets advertised by agencies or touts?; or perhaps you have an idea on how the club can improve its matchday facilities such as reducing the queues for a beer at halftime.
Contact us with your thoughts via these email addresses:
Ticket Office: lfc.to.issues[spamprevention][spamprevention].com
Club Shop: lfc.shop[spamprevention][spamprevention].com
Online Store: lfc.online.shop[spamprevention][spamprevention].com
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#187062 – Today at 06:19 PM Re: Official fan survey from the owners [Re: bowden]
Dont forget to say you are a member of Koptalk on any emails you send.
Dunk’s finally, after a lot of hints from this blog, started to say TOE the line, rather than TOW the line. It’s a saying he’s used for years when talking about why he’s been made to look an idiot in some way, or when the club’s told him to stop stealing copyright or lying about his insider contacts (he doesn’t actually have any).
#187073 – Today at 06:36 PM Re: Official fan survey from the owners [Re: bowden]
Dunk Dunk Administrator
KopTalk won’t toe-the-line and we already have our own dialogue. If you start getting too warm you start finding yourself doing favours… trust me I know. (“Already have our own dialogue?” It’s not positive dialogue. It’s the kind of dialogue you’d get from a farmer who’d just found you’ve been camping on his land and trampling all his crops. “Find yourself doing favours” – what kind of favours exactly? Does Oldham actually believe that his members can imagine any kind of favour he could do? Fifteen Liverpool FC Fan Sites are going to be doing “favours” then. It’s one of his “godfather” moments again. )
Certain people at Anfield (non executive) see us as “direct-competition” to their own official LFC website due to the fact that they have the e-season ticket and we have an alternative ‘unofficial’ membership. That’s stupid but I kind of see what they mean. (This is quite a funny claim from Oldham. The “non executive” members of staff at Anfield are there to deal with the more trivial issues that need some time to sort out. Personally I’d prefer it if Rick Parry was out buying Rafa’s transfer targets than have him sitting in an office dealing with a liar who makes up imaginary transfer targets. The “non executive” staff members are still higher up than anyone who Dunk has had meaningful repeated contact with at Anfield. These people see our players on a regular basis and liaise with the executive staff members. West Ham are being threatened with legal action because Sheffield United are £35m worse off after being relegated. Most of the £35m is from tv rights money. So the clubs are getting money to buy the next Zidane/Cheyrou from the sale of rights to show our games on the TV. The clubs aren’t allowed to show live coverage of their own league games on their websites. They aren’t allowed to show clips from games until a fixed amount of time has passed. By doing that, the TV companies give the clubs more money. So is it wrong of the club to be annoyed that Duncan Oldham sells £30 memberships to his website on the promise of members getting to see live football and goal clips? In reality the goal clips are all on You Tube, often after other individuals have posted them. The streams he promises are nothing more than links to other people’s streaming websites. Information I’ve seen on many forums, without having to pay £30. For £30 a member gets information freely available elsewhere and a “community” so poor that most of the posts are from Dunk, his brother, his cousin and four or five idiots who love the limelight they get in such a small pond. Competition prizes offered are often never received (like the WII comp that was started last November and has still not seen a prize awarded). For £30 the member could have put money towards the e-season ticket instead. All those stolen thirty quids from double-dipping, alongside the thirty quids given for a service they thought would be better, could have gone to LFC instead. Dunk (probably lying) claimed he had 5000 members last year. That’s 150,000 quid that wouldn’t have paid a fortnight’s wages for Steven Gerrard, but would have been a big help to the Academy. Most people I know with an e-season ticket don’t actually post or read the official site’s forums, they pay their money for the chance to hear commentary and to see the other clips the club provide. They happily post in one of the many free forums around the web instead. And as far as I know, LFC don’t deliberately take money twice or three times from members, don’t lie about what members will get for their money, and don’t ban members for mentioning other LFC websites. They also don’t lock members out because they suddenly decide they want extra personal information, nor do they introduce “you must post at least once a month” rules.)
There’s too many fans groups as it is. We voiced our ideas and concerns in Dallas a couple of months ago to the main men in person but it’s nice to see the rest finally catching up (Ah yes – the meeting with Tom Hicks. Or to be more accurate the brief visit to his office. Where you are no longer welcome now that Hicks and his family know about you. “The rest” have “finally” caught up as you put it because they decided to go to the club in an open and honest way and ask if they could have their views heard. Not just their own personal views – the views of the members of their sites. All their sites. Even if they think the ideas are awful on a personal level, they aren’t judging those ideas. How many members of Koptalk knew that Duncan Oldham was going to meet Tom Hicks in advance of him doing so? None. Not one. It wasn’t announced in advance because Dunk practically turned up unannounced, and was frightened that someone would warn Tom Hicks about who Dunk actually was. Tom knows now, as does George Gillett Junior. But how wanted Koptalk members must feel. Fifteen fans sites are asking members to put their views forward. Koptalk didn’t even ask their own members what they thought. That’s because Koptalk members can’t have their own views. It’s a cult, a dictatorship, not a friendly place where people can speak freely with like-minded people.)
It’s a good idea in a way but it’s floored because there’s too many people in the kitchen. (FLOORED! Do you mean ‘flawed’? Too many people in the kitchen? These sites are willing to let everyone have their say, then they will put the messages over to the club. Koptalk wants to put Duncan Oldham’s view forward, which includes offering him the rights to do whatever makes him money.) You need one group and there’s already the official supporters club and an independent version too. Then there’s RTK. People are confused already. (Well people don’t want to use a site that advertises the S*n. So that rules out Koptalk. The two supporters clubs cost money to join unless I’m mistaken (I’ve not checked so I’m prepared to be corrected, it’s been a while since I was in the official supporters club myself) – this is an initiative to get views from people without them having to join any club or society, without having to pay a penny. It’s an informal yet organised initiative. And RTK are part of it. RTK is a great campaign run by some passionate people, but got a lot of attacks for reasons I’ll not go into here in too much detail, except to say that most of the attacks were unfounded, not helped by some individuals spreading the wrong message about RTK. In fact one of the reasons this new initiative has been done in this way is so that it is not seen as belonging to just one or two sites. It started out because editors/owners of a couple of sites came up with the idea. If I’m not mistaken, the idea was actually kind of born twice. Editor of site A spoke to editor of site B and thought it was a good idea. So they thought they’d tell editor of site C, who it turned out had already discussed a similar idea with the editor of site D. And so the idea was born – before Athens I hasten to add, but held back in terms of an announcement until the Athens dust had settled. As for too many groups causing confusion, I don’t think that’s too much of a problem for members of those other sites because they can ask questions of each other. And there are a lot of other groups who campaign for different elements of what matters to LFC fans. “Keep Flags Scouse” is a controversial group that looks at banners, and of course we have more than one group who campaign for support or justice relating to Hillsborough.
Anyone can voice their opinions, you don’t need someone to hold your hand to do it. Well I, as someone who found a way to voice my opinion about Koptalk without any censorship, know how true that can be. I was lucky in many ways that the word about the blog spread so quickly and that others were so willing to help with their time and sometimes money (for domain names, land registry documentation, phone calls, faxes, letter writing etc). Rick Parry knows about this blog. George Gillett has certainly read the blog, and Tom Hicks knows all about it. A lot of Anfield staff read the blog. But if I’d wanted to voice an opinion that I thought the pies were crap in the main stand I somehow don’t think a blog would have worked. I now know that I can email the new addresses provided and that there’s a good chance that the person who orders the pies will get to hear about my view. Although for the record I’d just like to state that I don’t think I’ve ever had a pie from the main stand – it was just an example. The club could actually save a fortune thanks to this idea – imagine how much it would cost to do some market research and get this kind of feedback. I seriously encourage you to put your views forward on these issues because it’s probably the best chance you’ll ever have to be heard. On the other hand you can still use the existing “contact us” forms that have been on the official site for years, which give you options on which department you need to contact, but also go to a dedicated department if you aren’t sure who should get your email. The club pretty much always answer emails.)
(This also says from the owners and ‘official’. It’s neither. (Well the statement never said it was either of those two things. It’s your member who said that. And seeing as your members are used to having to assume things based on Koptalk weasel words it’s no surprise the member made some wrong assumptions.) They hope to have proper dialogue… (Well between them, those sites have plenty of contacts at the club, and in the local media – I think it’s safe to say they’ll get proper dialogue) although I think they will as the new owners have to listen. (The new owners will be glad to see that not all LFC fansite are run by parasites who steal from LFC fans and even their own family) I also advised Hicks etc to set up contact forms on the official site for the ordinary fan and they seemed to like that idea.) (Dunk – the contact forms for “the ordinary fan” have been there for years. And you know it – because that’s how you got in touch with the club last year when you weren’t happy with this blog over one issue or other. You have no contacts at Anfield – but you know where the “contact us” form is. )
I can almost imagine Hicks now, as Dunk leaves from his two-minute sit-down in Hicks’ office: “Son, check the LFC.tv website – have we not got a contact form on there?” Reply: “Why yes pa, it’s there, always has been.” Hicks: “Where’s my calculator gone? And my pen? And that paperweight? SECURITY!”
I have to admit that Dunk had little choice over how to answer this other than to lie. I can’t see how else he could explain Koptalk’s absence. The truth is that Koptalk is well known as an anti-LFC para-site. How could Dunk tell his members that? So he has to lie. Some members of Koptalk are lacking in brain cells, but not all by any means. Certainly not the lurkers who quietly sit back taking it all in. And they will want to find out more about this independent initiative now. And that means they’ll indirectly find out the truth about Koptalk.
Unless Oldham holds his hands up soon, admits his wrongs and starts putting them right, he’ll see his site die completely. He’s burned his bridges with Gillett, Hicks, Parry and “non executive” staff. He’ll never get a job working for the club website – not that he’s ever been offered one. He’ll not get a job working for any web design company when they realise he thinks having two firefox tabs open on his site would grind it to a halt. He’ll not get a job working anywhere given his past record. If he mentions Koptalk or Caboodle or SpursArmy or UpTheToon or FootballandBirds (and so on) his future employers will find this website. His best hope is to come clean, but Dunk hasn’t the courage to do that. He doesn’t actually believe that some members would respect him for it. He’ll never get Koptalk back to what it was, but he’s quickly running out of time to save it from complete obscurity.