Getting your Koptalk money back from PayPal

by Rupert Insider


Contributors have written in to testify that they used the guide provided in the tool bar KT-PayPal Fraud to claim a refund from PayPal for payments that were more than a year old. It appears that at least in some cases PayPal is suspending its 45 day guidance when it comes to claims against KopTalk – so claim !

If they can get 100% of their fee by applying directly to PayPal for a refund I can understand why Oldham says he will refund the “remaining balance” of the fee to members who cancel or who are banned.

Today, Duncan Oldham had another go at misleading his members about the KopTalk PayPal scam. This was to reassure them so that they would send in a cash stake in his latest “competition” – which may be against the laws on gambling.

He assured them that he would not convert their stake into a subscription for KopTalk or fiddle with their PayPal account. He said KopTalk cannot “draw” money from their account. And to prove this he referred them to his explanation on his support site – you know, The Con Man’s Guide to Ethics.

But the main KT PayPal scam is this. If you pay a subscription by PayPal he will cause PayPal to put an automatic renewal on your account – however he tries to hide the fact. When that payment becomes due he will send you an invoice in the form of a letter reminding you. When you pay that invoice, he does not cancel the automatic invoice or advise you to do it – and he draws the duplicate payment from your PayPal account.

He’s a master of weasel words and will say that he did not draw it – you paid it through the automatic renewal – more fool you. If you don’t notice you have paid twice, sometimes for years, he won’t tell you – he keeps your cash.

Check now to see if you have been over-charged in the past and remove the automatic renewal Oldham put on your account. Use the tool bar item and get your money back from PayPal – all of it.This also applies to normal subscription to KopTalk – not only to double payments or payments for services you never used. If you are dissatisfied with the site, get your money back, all of it. Use the PayPal Refund Service. You need only give PayPal a link to the blog, and make a statement like “KT is not mature as advertised but run by kids” or “it does not have Insider information as advertised” or “George Gillett is not a member as advertised” or whatever else is the cause of your wanting all your money back.

PayPal is getting to know KopTalk very well. They may short cut their procedures and give you the refund immediately.

Postscript: I received a letter in response to the above. The reader wanted me to make clear how Oldham causes an automatic renewal to be placed on their account:

“I have been looking into PayPal to clear up my confusion on the matter. I have enclosed a link to the PayPal page which explains how it is up to service provider how to initiate the billing process. (takes you to PayPals page)

You can see from this that Dunk can structure the payment in different ways, specifically he does not have to include the automatic renewal.

It would be easier for him to not do this and then present the bill back to the member when their sub has expired. This way there would be no way people could be billed twice.

The fact that he is still resisting this option shows this to be a calculated decision to persue the double dipping. I believe, he mentions, or did mention, the ability to turn off automatic renewal during the signup process but as I’ve already explained why not do it at source.

It’s the same reason why people who have paid a deposit on a non existence book have to get in contact with him for the money and not the other way round.”


6 Responses to “Getting your Koptalk money back from PayPal”

  1. secrettiger Says:

    Followed instructions and got following message:

    We Have Registered Your Dispute
    Thank you for registering your complaint about this transaction. Unfortunately, this type of transaction is not eligible for PayPal dispute resolution. We encourage you to continue to work directly with your seller, as we have found that many misunderstandings reach amicable solutions through communication.

    Any suggestions?

  2. secrettiger Says:

    In Resolution Center it says the case is ‘deferred’

  3. secrettiger Says:

    When I click on ‘details’ of the ‘deferred’ case in the resolution center I get the following message:

    Resolution Centre – Dispute Details
    Return to Resolution Centre

    This dispute closed because it was open for more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet other criteria for opening a dispute.

  4. Insider Insider Says:

    Hi Secrettiger – sorry to hear you’re having problems.

    I don’t know much about the mechanics of Pay Pal myself, but hopefully someone will be along shortly who does!

    I know that on there’s a sticky post about getting refunds from Pay Pal, maybe there’s some advice in there, or maybe one of the regulars there will know.

    Other than that I would recommend contacting Pay Pal through their “customer services” links.

    Also, raise a “support ticket” on Koptalk asking for a refund if you’ve not already done so. If you get no response within a reasonable time, say 7 days, contact trading standards about it.

  5. rupertinsider Says:


    “or did not meet other criteria”

    It would be helpful to know what your were asking to be refunded

    1. double payment

    2. book deposit

    3. balance of fee

    4. full fee

    5. whether you stated a reason

    and it would be worthwhile asking PayPal through customer service which criteria your request did not meet: you might be able to submit it again with a better format

    if it does not work for you, you still have access to small claims court in the UK if you can provide a UK address where the court can forward papers (you don’t have to live in the UK).

    If you go that route you should first write to KopTalk and ask for a refund, and then give them notice that you intend to use the small claims court (see our guide to using the small claims court)

    you could also use reference to trading standards when dealing with KT

  6. rupertinsider Says:

    I have amended the post because the contributor who said he had received his Jan 2005 deposit on the book back from PayPal, directly, has now corrected himself and said he got it from KopTalk.

    Also I received a letter from a reader who wanted to explain how and why Oldham puts an automatic renewal feature on members’ accounts. I have incorporated part of that letter and link into the post.

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