by Rupert Insider
Today’s letter is from Terence in Singapore.
That in itself make it very valuable. Oldham’s scams work best on overseas LFC supporters. They love the club but have to rely on the internet to find fellow fans. They find Koptalk through the traps he sets in search engines.
At first, they believe Oldham’s sales pitch because they don’t know his record as a con man in the UK. When they find out, they cannot easily use the small claims court in the UK. Oldham exploits this situation.
We’ve shown, for example, how Oldham overcharged Johnny from Africa ₤94 in three years. HERE
Terry’s letter is even more valuable because he demonstrates how he beat Oldham’s PayPal scam. And he sets out clearly how everyone else can use the same technique.
I will be adding his tips to the KT-PayPal Fraud sticky in the tool bar at the top of this page. Meanwhile, I’ll thank Terry for his excellent letter and allow it to speak for itself:
Hi Rupert Insider,
I am a die-hard Reds fan for nearly 15 years.
I read with interest your blog on Koptalk and was flabbergasted at the rubbish I have been exposed to for 2 years (yes that’s how long I subscribed to Koptalk).
I paid using PayPal because I am from Singapore and of course was subjected to the auto-renewal of subscription. As I did not have a PayPal account when I first subscribed, my friend Vince paid for me so the subscription was under his name. For the first year, even though the money was deducted automatically, my access was blocked for a few weeks while my friend tried to convince them the subscription was paid.
For this current one, I was determined not to contribute any more of my hard-earned cash to this swindler. I found an easier way to get back money from the auto-renewal of subscription. All anyone who has his money deducted from their credit card has to do is to :
1) Log in to PayPal
2) Click on All account activity
3) Click on ‘Details’ in the entry ‘Payment to Koptalk.Com’
4) Near the end of the transaction page, there would be a link for users to ‘Report a Dispute’
5) Just fill in the form after clicking on it. I selected ‘Non-receipt’ as the reason for dispute.
That’s it. On the PayPal website, it will be written that the seller (Koptalk in this case) would be getting a chance to reply.
Unfortunately for dunk and fortunately for us, what PayPal does is to subtract the amount under dispute from his PayPal balance until after resolution. Therefore, all you have to do is submit the dispute request and the money disappears from his balance.
Now you wait, because PayPal is very protective towards buyers. They will not re-credit back the amount until they are satisfied that the buyer is happy.
If after 2 weeks, the seller does not reply, the money is automatically credited back.
If the seller does reply, the buyer has to fill in a form in PayPal which basically lets him declare he is happy with the seller, before the seller gets his money back.
If things are not settled in 2 weeks, the matter will be escalated to human intervention.
The easy part will be then to point the PayPal person to your blog. (ALL THIS WHILE YOUR MONEY IS NO LONGER IN THE SELLER’S ACCOUNT UNTIL YOU DECLARE YOU ARE SATISFIED)
I know all these details about PayPal because I used to run a small business selling to overseas clients and some of them expect their goods after 2 days of payment even though I am sending from Singapore (in Asia) to USA. They will do the PayPal dispute thing and my money will disappear even though I sent the goods. It is pretty difficult to get back the money after someone sends a dispute.
So I did what I said above and in the reason for dispute I just put:
“https://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/ this website explains all about why koptalk dot com is a fraud. please refund my money as I did not even know there was a auto-renewal. “
My friend got his credit card credited back with the money one day after I submitted my dispute (dunk watches his PayPal closely I suppose).
This is dunk’s reply to the dispute.
Vincent don’t be a clown. Go to the support site at www dot koptalk dot info as it clearly explains how PayPal bills you. It says this when you sign up on PayPal’s page. Try signing up now but don’t complete the sign up process and you will see the terms clearly displayed. It’s easy to cancel it and it’s just as easy for us to refund you. The website link you have included is people we have kicked off our site who are associated to a new Liverpool FC website. You’d have to be very, very naive or thick to believe what they say. Ask them why they haven’t reported such allegations to the police. Because it’s fairytale stuff. Issuing a refund is never a problem hence the reason I’m authorising this now for you. Don’t let yourself be dragged in, surely you are more interlligent than that even if some of these people are your friends. KopTalk has been on the internet for 10 years and until last summer when we kicked these people out we’d never had any problems. No genuine Liverpool fan would entertain anyone so bitter who has targeted innocent people including children, a disbaled family member and even the innocent lives of 96 Reds who died at Hillsborough purely to score brownie points. Shame on you for allowing yourself to become a part of it.
Now that’s a load of rubbish which I don’t understand even though I tried to read it twice. But the thinly-veiled insults to somebody who has paid him 2 years of subscription is obvious and infuriating.
Anyway I hope with this email I could help a few of my fellow conned users. Great work on your blog anyway!
I wrote back to Terence and asked him how long after the initial transaction could someone make use of this technique. This is his reply:
“If you have a Paypal account, you could log into it and go to ‘Resolution Center’ under ‘My account’ where there would be a ‘Report a problem’ link. Clicking on it will bring you to a page with full information on the Dispute process. Unfortunately I can’t paste the link here because Paypal requires you to be logged in.
As for your question, here’s a snippet from the link I described above.
Most disputes are the result of simple misunderstandings. It’s best to initiate communication with the seller as soon as you recognize a potential problem.
You can open a dispute in the Resolution Center within 45 calendar days of payment. By opening a dispute, you are able to communicate directly with your seller to work out a problem transaction.
If you and your seller are unable to agree on a solution, you must escalate the dispute to a PayPal claim within 20 calendar days of the date the dispute was opened. By escalating to a claim, you would be asking PayPal to review the case and decide the outcome.
Full details are available from the PayPal website.
I guess you could post this up to help others.”
Enclosed: Copy of the PayPal account transaction referred to in the letter. We have smudged the surname of the account and the account number to protect the identity of Vince. Click to enlarge
POSTCRIPT: The first quick response to Terrence came in today. NOTICE that he got a refund immediately using Terence’s method . But for overcharges dating back to June 2006. So forget the 45 days limit. Go for it!
I have to thank you so much for your post about how to get money back if it has been taken off you paypal account. It was posted yesterday by a guy form Singapore who unlocked the Koptalk scam. I have attached a screen shot of my paypal account where Koptalk took 2 subscriptions off me within 3 days. I then used the steps as outlined in your post, and this morning I got a refund for being billed twice for my subscription.
I used the blog link to show how koptalk frauds people out of money. Paypal have an excellent resolution centre that sorts out everything out for you. I was checking my paypal account recently just to make sure that no auto renewals were being taken out on my account, and I decided that I should check my account to to when I signed up. I was totally amazed that koptalk had the nerve to bill me twice for the one subscripion within 3 days of each other. I never noticed it, and it was my fault for not noticing it at the time. I just nevert doubted that fellow liverpool fans would do that to another fan, but there it is he is not a liverpool fan.
Anyway I got my money back and its thanks toyou and the wonderful work on the Blog.