WARNING: PayPal – Koptalk raids accounts twice in 6 weeks.

by Rupert Insider

paypaldevil2.jpgA number of readers have written with more or less the same story. It goes something like this.

They bought a one year’s subscription to Koptalk for £26 or £30 and paid through PayPal.

Within 4-6 weeks Koptalk withdrew another year’s subscription for £26 from their PayPal account.

When the reader contacted Koptalk to complain they were referred to a “low priority” support ticket that was never answered.

In some cases, they took the initiative to write several emails, which went unanswered.

They tried to telephone Duncan Oldham, the sole owner of Koptalk who receives all the monies paid in, mixing business, charity and personal revenues in the same account. But he was not contactable.

In some cases they telephoned Steve McNeish, the 17 year- old step-brother of Duncan Oldham and so-called “Editor”.

He greeted them casually, in the manner of someone who had heard it all many times before. He agreed it was a mistake but smoothly suggested that since it was now done, why not just leave it so that, in effect, they would be paying subscriptions two years in advance! Then he changed his mobile number – again.

Some who wrote to us had already cancelled their membership in Koptalk before the second payment was taken. All have cancelled it now.

Some complained directly to PayPal about a fraudulent transaction and in some cases PayPal refunded their money immediately.

It appears that some who wrote to us did not understand that when they first subscribed, Koptalk had set up the transaction in such a way with PayPal that there would be an automatic renewal in one year for £26. When they found out, usually from this blog, they cancelled the automatic renewal.

But that does not explain the second payments taken in 4-6 weeks of the first.

Those were not annual automatic renewals. In fact how Koptalk managed to get them from their PayPal account is something of a mystery. Some of our readers are trying to find out from PayPal. We will report when we get the details.

In the meantime, please be WARNED.

All the stories have variations. The following is one particular story we received today (we have hidden identifying details which we have on file).

You will note that a second year’s subscription was taken from their account within six weeks of the first. It seemed to be triggered by their decision to cancel their first subscription!

It’s not unusual in Koptalk rip-offs that the victims are from outside the UK, as in this case.

This is a young couple in an isolated area. It is not cost-effective for them to call Steve’s mobile number or to pursue Oldham through the UK small claims court – and of course he knows that.

However, even UK subscribers have fallen victim to this particular scam.

___________________________

Hi !

Just to inform you you are right about KopTalk they are crap. I paied 30 £ for one year subscription on the 2 of November 2006 – on the 28 of December 2006 KopTalk transfeared 26 £ from my paypale account without my knowledge and approval. in the mean time I had already canceled my subscription that was done on the 12 of December.

Just keep on with your blog – and let KopTalk walk alone.

brgds

Reader’s PayPal Account Details:

All Activity – Simple View from Jun. 28, 2006 to Dec. 28, 2006


Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action
Amount
Dec. 28, 2006 Payment To KOPTALK.COM Completed
Details -£26.00 GBP
Dec. 12, 2006 Subscription Cancellation To KOPTALK.COM
Cancelled Details …
Nov. 2, 2006 Payment To KOPTALK.COM Completed
ails -£30.00 GBP
Nov. 2, 2006 Subscription Creation To KOPTALK.COM
Cancelled Details …

Another email to the blog from the same reader:

“I have canceled everything with KopTalk they have got the same information as I gave you. I have also informed PayPal, but I do not care so much about the 26 £, I just hope I can warn other people who use KopTalk.

You are welcome to use the information I have sent to you – fyg the only thing I have heard from kopTalk is:

_________________________________

Your ticket has been received, one of the staff members will review it and reply accordingly. Listed below are details of this ticket, Please make sure the Ticket ID remains in the subject at all times.Ticket ID: XXXXXXXX (hidden by the blog)

Subject: URGENT – PLEASE ADVICE
Department:
Priority: Low
Status: Open

You can check the status or reply to this ticket online at: http://koptalk.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=viewticket&ticketid=XXXX (hidden by the blog)
Email: xxxx@xxxx.xx (hidden by blog)
Password: xxxxxxxxx ( I have the password)

Please do let us know if we can assist you any further,

KOPTALK SUPPORT

_____________________________

Reader’s email continues:

I do not know how they were able to transfer 26 £ from my account, but for sure I have not transferred any money to them on the 28 dec 2006. I have not visited PayPal for a mounth or so, I noted it because I got a mail from PayPal

Dear XXXXX (hidden by blog)


This email confirms that you sent 26.00 GBP to KOPTALK.COM as a subscription payment.

———————————–
Payment Details
———————————–
—–
Subscription nDetails
———————————–

Amount: 26.00 nGBP
Date: 28 Dec 2006
Subscription Name: Gold Club Renewal – 1 nyear
Subscription Number: xxx(hidden by the blog)

The exchange rate for this purchase is 1 DKK u003d n0.0877345GBP
———————————–
Contact Information
———————————–

If you have any questions or concerns about this subscription, please contact:

Business Name: KOPTALK.COM
Contact Email:
support@koptalk.com

Contact Phone: +44 9050280723

Thank you nfor using PayPal!
The PayPal Team

Reader’s email continues:
Well all the best, you can use all the info you have got from me.
brgds

(name and address supplied)

___________________________________________________________________

Readers of this blog will know that we have printed several warnings about PayPal renewals to Koptalk.If you don’t know how to cancel yours please consult this article which gives a step by step guide.

“Don’t Let Koptalk Pick Pocket PayPal ” Click for article.

Check your PayPal account. Cancel any automatic renewal to Koptalk (use the instructions given in the article).

Also check to see if there have been any unauthorised withdrawals by Koptalk. If so inform PayPal and demand repayment. Also inform Koptalk and demand repayment.

Keep copies of all correspondence and a diary. Let us know what happens. In the UK a Trading Standards officer is monitoring Koptalk. Therefore, Oldham has a big incentive to give you back your money.

We will protect your privacy, if you wish. The two people who wrote today gave us permission to use all their information because they do not want others to be ripped off. But even so we have hidden some of the identifying details they gave us.

We would like to thank them and urge them to pursue Oldham for the money he has taken from their account without permission.

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20 Responses to “WARNING: PayPal – Koptalk raids accounts twice in 6 weeks.”

  1. latestinsider Says:

    If many ex-subscribers to kraptalk complain to Paypal about the piemans scam, then surely they will suspend his account?

    If this does happen and IF the pieman has substantial funds in it, it would be a MASSIVE BLOW to his income! heh heh!

    Lets hope Paypal do something soon. Keep complaining ppl.

    Another nail in the coffin.

  2. latestinsider Says:

    p.s. not to forget the criminal activity of FRAUD he’s committed. Paypal takes fraud matters VERY SERIOUSLY.

  3. amused Says:

    How the hell can he just scoop cash out of people’s accounts? That’s really worrying and Paypal should be taking this extremely seriously.

  4. rupertinsider Says:

    amused

    I agree. Some have written to PayPal to ask them precisely that question but have not heard back.

  5. Honorary Insider Says:

    Is he just trying to scam as much cash as possible before doing a runner?
    Maybe our job is almost done here
    (tho somehow I doubt it………his ego wont let him admit to another failure in his sad miserable life………….more to come on this subject soon Hee Hee )

  6. McWar Says:

    Everyone who reads this should change their paypal password immediately to something as secure as possible – use a combination of letters and numbers.

    It’s possible he’s hacking the accounts before doing a runner.

    In fact change all your passwords if you can.

  7. latestinsider Says:

    Honorary Insider: I agree…I reckon that his con days are coming to an end……and so will this blog….rupertinsider can find a proper job now! lol

  8. Steve 001 Says:

    Just a thought and maybe way off the mark but would Oldham have access to the passwords people used when registered on his site. People being people and sometimes a little lazy, they often use the same password for all sites that require one and so they may use the same password for their paypal account as they did for KT. If someone knew the details of the incoming payment (as Oldham would when he saw the original authorised one come into him) then maybe he could have chanced his arm and gone to paypal and used the known details and the ‘password’ of the member. Those who have been robbed might want to check which passwords they use for both sites so as to rule this out as an option.

  9. Insider Insider Says:

    I just posted some similar advice elsewhere. I really don’t see it being difficult for Dunk to get hold of a hack of some kind that would be able to unscramble the passwords on his database. Anyone who uses their dog’s name as their password for everything is then vulnerable.

    Even without a hack, the old routine for registering for the Insider / Gold Club was quite dodgy given what we know about Dunk. You had to first register using the forum’s software, then you had to a fill a form in on the koptalk.inf0 site saying which username and password you’d used. It wasn’t encrypted, it wasn’t a https page, it was all “in the clear”. In other words, Dunk’s got a list of passwords used initially for a good number of his members.

    Is Dunk dodgy enough to then use these passwords on sites like eBay, PayPal, Amazon?

    If you used the same password, or a similar password on Koptalk AT ANY TIME that you use elsewhere, you are vulnerable. Seriously – spend an hour or two this afternoon changing all your passwords that might be similar to a former Koptalk one.

    Preferably use a mixture of Upper and Lower case letters with some numbers too – for example instead of “password” try “pa5sW0Rd” or something.

  10. KopWank Says:

    Interesting theory and certainly possible. There is simply no need to ask for passwords on a seperate form. Koptalk NEVER need a password to run a forum regardless of whether its paid for or not.

    There are facilities to reset passwords based on email address. Most forums use MD5 to store passwords which is not reversible although it can be brute forced. Since koptalk are too stupid to do that they ask you to enter your user/pass elsewhere on a simple form so they can make a list of them all.

    Could Koptalk have logged in and done this renewal manually? It will be very interesting to see what Paypals response is….

  11. rupertinsider Says:

    I have had a reply from one of those who contacted PayPal.

    They ´left open the possibility that the second payment could be the result of fraud by KT and suggested that if he is suspicious of KT that he inform the police.

    More to follow….

  12. JKD Says:

    I was the one who KopTalk tried to robbed. I contacted PayPal at once I got the email about the transfer too KopTalk. It looks like we managed to stop the transfer, and if the transfer should go ahead my bank will go in to the case with all there muscles.

    The only way I can figure it out is that KopTalk has got my password to PayPal when I brought my subscription from KopTalk on the 2 of November I used the PayPale link they have on their web page, maybe they have something behind that link which I do not know anything about.

    I have still not heard a single word from KopTalk about the transfer.

  13. rupertinsider Says:

    I can confirm that JKD is the person (or one of them) who sent me the email featured in the above article.

    Good to see that prompt action may have prevented Oldham getting his hands on the money or having to give it back.

    I would be interested in the mechanics.

  14. Jayson Says:

    You clearly don’t know how paypal works. It’s impossible for a receiver to initiate a payment.

  15. rupertinsider Says:

    Jayson

    You clearly did not read the article very closely. I said that it is a mystery how it happened and that those affected have been trying to find out from PayPal. I also left open the possibility that it was an error by PayPal and asked all those who contacted me to investigate that possibility.

    After a long delay in answering PayPal has now stated they don’t know how it happened and suggested that Koptalk fraud is a possibility to be considered if the person is suspicious.

    That fraud could take various forms – none of which would include what you describe as the receiver initiating payment.

    Since I last commented – Steve Mcneish has mumbled something about an error in the automatic transfer. But as the article said he had already admitted it was an error – without explaining how it occurred – but went unto to suggest that the money should stay with KT as two years membership in advance. In other words, now that you have circumvented our support ticket delay tactic, and our failure to answer emails and you’ve actually caught me on my mobile blower, I admit its an error so let’s make it an error in our favour.

  16. Jon Says:

    So, how in paypal do you cancel automatic payments ?

  17. rupertinsider Says:

    I explained in the article above. Find where it says:

    Go here and follow the instructions:

    “Don’t Let Koptalk Pick Pocket PayPal ” Click for article.

    Or go to: https://koptalkinsider.wordpress.com/2006/09/23/dont-let-koptalk-pick-pocket-paypal-2/

  18. Jon Says:

    Sorry, totally missed that somehow.
    Thanks.

  19. Rob Says:

    I signed up for a lifetime membership a couple of years ago using Paypal. As with lots of people I fell for his transfer scam headlines. I was not a happy bunny when I found out that I had been hoodwinked but the boards weren’t bad and as it was for a lifetime membership I figured I’d take it on the chin. Earlier this year I signed into Koptalk and found out my lifetime membership had “run out”. I emailed them and they ignored me. I tried again and sent them all the details of my Paypal payment. They tried to lie to me by telling me that it was an annual membership. When I sent them a copy of the website page that I signed up from I received what I considered to be an abusive email from Dunc telling me that I was an unsavoury character and even if I paid again I wouldn’t be welcome. All because I was not prepared to meekly accept his lies. I seriously hope this guy gets his come uppance and eventually ends up in court for theft. Better still jail. He really deserves it. He’s lower than a snake in my opinion.

  20. Honorary Insider Says:

    Rob,
    Report your experiences to Alan Burnett of North Tyneside Trading Standards (contact details on the “shop Oldham” section of this Blog) Alan Burnett is keeping a very close eye on the Koptalk Konman and experiences like yours , backed up with documentary evidence is just what he is ooking for


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