Gerrard, Kuyt, Alonso and Co. – do you recognise their signatures?

by Rupert Insider detectiveinglasses.gif

Do you have a genuine signature from an LFC player, or an authentic copy of one?

The photos below show what are supposedly authentic signatures of first team players. They were taken by one of our readers in the last few days. The signatures were certified authentic by Koptalk which sold them on a Champions League ball for £109.99. (Note the “.99” – a very convincing detail).

Last week we published the story of how our reader bought the ball. (I’ve attached it below, if you did not see it).

Some of the blog readers think the signatures and the Koptalk Certificate of Authencity are criminal fakes.

What do you think?

Please compare the player signatures you have with these and let us know in the Comments section, or by confidential email, whether it matches any of them?

In fact, let us know what genuine signatures you have that don’t match any of them. That way we might be able to go through the whole team and rule out which signatures are not in the photo.

This was the ball, as advertised on the Koptalk Home Page :

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These are the close-ups from the ball that was actually received.

Click to enlarge the photos 

Picture 1

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Picture 2

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Picture 3

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Picture 4

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Below is Steve McNeish from Koptalk who signed the Certificate of Authenticity in June 2006 when he was 16 yrs of age. But it took many emails from the purchaser to get the certificate and it arrived three months after he had paid Koptalk for the ball through PayPal.

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Below is the Certificate of Authenticity (I’ve blurred the customer’s name). Its printed on a thin piece of a cheap A4 paper and the “seal” is blank. It is undated.

Click to enlarge

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This is Duncan Oldham, the sole owner of the Wallsend-based Koptalk business. All money sent to Koptalk for whatever reason goes to him. He claims he “controls” Steve, who is his step-brother. Does he use him in this and other matters in order to protect himself from direct, traceable involvement?

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LFC fans smell a rat

Published December 8th, 2006 4 Comments Edit

by Rupert Insider detectiveinglasses3.gif

Shirts for as much as £500 and footballs for £110 are among the merchandise Koptalk ships to LFC fans. All are supposedly “official” – supposedly signed by LFC players – supposedly backed by an independent certificate of authentication.

The hard sell is done by Dunk and Steve. Those two may look like tubby hamsters waddling around a garden shed in Wallsend, but some of our readers smell a rat.

Duncan Oldham was one of the first spivs to use the net for fraud. Way back in 1997-1999, when his step-brother Steve McLeish was only 8 or 9, he used to sell illegal satellite cards to posters on usenet football groups and then skip without delivering them. In those days he operated under the false name Del Johnson.

Petty con men on the net assume that their victims will not know each other and therefore won’t be able to compare their experiences or join forces to fight back.

More than likely a victim will think his case is unique and will be too embarassed to publicise the fact that he alone were taken for a ride.

And as long as the amount was not too large, who is going to go to take the time and cost of pursuing con men through the civil or criminal justice system, even if the total of all the individual cons was large? And this is especially true if the victim lives overseas.

But Duncan Oldham has got away with it for so long he has become complacent. This is no longer 1997-1999. These days, he who lives by the net dies by the net.

Among its other functions, this blog provides a forum for anyone who suspects they have been conned by the Koptalk pair. Here, you can share your experiences anonymously. Its a good way of alerting LFC about any of merchandise that was sold to you as being “official”. And we can point you to the appropriate police force, if necesssary, and to a Trading Standard Office that is already monitoring Koptalk.com for potential illegal practices.

In the past few days we have published two articles questioning the authenticty of Koptalk’s “official” LFC memorabilia and we have already had a number of confidential letters from readers about past Koptalk deals that seem fishy. We will be commenting on some of them later.

In the meantime, if you feel uneasy about goods or services that you or one of your family or friends bought from Koptalk – or are thinking of buying for Christmas – please write to us. It will be a warning flag for others. And it may help you get your money back.

LFC has a worldwide reputation for integrity. You can be sure that the club, the players and all Liverpool fans – at least those who are not caught up in the S*n-loving Koptalk website – will be supportive of your effort to stop the two Wallsend shysters from continuing their exploitation of the club’s good name.

May I suggest that before you write you read the two recent articles I have attached below if you haven’t already done so. Don’t forget to look at the Comments after the last one – they’re quite revealing.

rupertinsider @ gmail.com

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LFC PLAYERS SIGNATURES – fake or real? Has this reader been conned?

Published December 7th, 2006 Comments

by Rupert Insider detectiveinglasses3.gif

One of the blog’s readers has a serious, long-standing suspicion that he may have been the victim of criminal fraud by Duncan Oldham who carries on business as Koptalk.com aided and abetted by his step-brother Steve McNeish.

He sincerely hopes that this was not the case. He gave them both every opportunity to reassure him. But their response has left him feeling even more uneasy. Now he wants us – that is all those who contribute to and read this blog – to help him find out. Can you help? Is he right even to be suspicious? You decide.

It all started in March 2006 when Koptalk advertised for sale a Champions League ball signed by LFC players. There was a photograph of the ball being held up against what looked like the “This is Anfield” sign at Anfield.

This is the very photo:

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There were two versions of the advertisements. Here’s sample excerpts from both. I’ve highlighted some differences between them:

Version 1

An official Champions League ball signed by approximately 16 members of the Liverpool first team including all the bigs guns such as Cisse, Gerrard, Alonso, Carragher, Garcia and so on. If you are outside the UK and Ireland, please email steve@koptalk.com for postage options and pricing before purchasing. Thanks

Version 2

We have 5 signed Champions League balls available, our first since Christmas 2005. They are signed by approximately 17 first team players including Gerrard, Carragher, Alonso, Hamann, Kewell etc. Any questions? Just go to www.koptalk.info and open a support ticket. If you are outside the UK, please open a support ticket so we can price up the correct postage for you. All balls come with a certificate of authenticity.

Our reader thought that LFC had banned players from signing merchandise items on the gate at Melwood to try and cut down on signed items appearing on places like eBay where it is said that 85% of the LFC signatures are false. If that were the case then the only place to get a real signed ball would be from the club itself.

So he did think about the possibility that the Koptalk merchandise was fake. But not for long. After all this was not Ebay. This was a site that claimed to be the No.1 LFC supporter’s site with access to executives at the club and it claimed to be virtually a not-for-profit enterprise raising revenues only to cover the expenses of running the site.

Surely, our reader thought, Koptalk would not risk its reputation by being involved in fake merchandise? Surely fellow LFC fans in Koptalk would raise the red flag if it was a dishonest offer?

Besides the advertisements said that the balls were official. And the clincher was that they came with a certificate of authenticity.

(This was before this blog got started – before we were able to expose that all Koptalk’s claims were fake – to be No. 1, to have access to executives and to be not-for-profit – and that Oldham and his step-brother quickly banned members who asked awkward questions and eliminated their posts).

I don’t know how what those advertisements say to you, but to our reader it sounded like LFC had authorised Koptalk to sell these balls and that the certificate of authenticty would be from LFC. And if not, at the very least the certifciate would offer independent proof that the balls were signed by the players and how they came into the possession of Koptalk and that Koptalk had the legal right to sell them.

Anyway, this is what happened:

16 March 06
He bought a “signed Champions League Ball” from the KT homepage for £109.99 He does not recall if it included VAT – but probably not because KT never collects VAT. He paid by PayPal.

20 March 06
No response from KT. He contacted them to ask if they have his order. They confirmed they have and tell him that they’ll contact him soon about delivery.

23 March 06
He received an email promising delivery within 10 days

7 Apr 06
No sign of the ball yet. He contacted KT again and they tell him that they are awaiting delivery of the ball to the KT office and promise it will be with them soon.

He became uneasy. Why was it taking so long for them to receive delivery something that they had implied in the advertisement that they already had i.e. “We have 5 of these to sell”

19 April 06
There was still no sign that the ball was being delivered. He sent another reminder.

28 Apr 06
The ball finally arrives 6 weeks after ordering but without the promised Certificate of Authenticity.

Disappointingly he could not read a single one of the signatures. They might have all been made by a fat spider with inky legs.

Given the run-around he had already been put through he was even more concerned to have a certificate. He contacted Steve McNeish at KT who told him that he would send one that day.

5 May 06
The certificate had still not arrived and he contacted Steve again. Steve apologised again and promised to send it out on Monday.

12 May 06
Two weeks after he first asked for the certificate it had still had not arrived. He contacted Steve who again excused himself by saying that he had not had time to send it with the FA Cup and everything!

17 May 06
He received an email again promising that the certificate would be sent that day.

24 May 06
One week later, still no certificate. Our reader sent the following email to KT:

Hi,

You sent me the below email, in which you promised to send out a
certificate “today”, a week ago.

 

The certificate has STILL not turned up. Do you have any intention of
posting it out any time soon?

This is the FORTH time I’ve been promised that it would be sent out
“today”. The first time you made this promise was all the way back on
28th April, in other words a month ago.

If you don’t have the certificates then please just say so instead of
continually promising things that you seem unable to deliver.

My initial order for this ball was placed on the 20th March, over TWO
MONTHS ago. Is it asking too much for the order to be completed in this
amount of time?

Please sort it out

Koptalk did not responded to the above email.

31 May 06
He emailed Koptalk again. But there was no response.

19 Jun 06
The certificate arrived!

By now you know what he was expecting – something very professional from Liverpool FC or its authorised agent on parchment like paper. In fact, being a positive sort, he even hoped that the very long time they were taking to send it indicated that it was because it took that time to get it issued and registered by LFC.

So it was very disappointing and alarming to discover that the Certificate of Authenticty was nothing more than a flimsy piece of printed A4 paper signed by Steve McNeish with a blank “seal”.

I reproduce it below (I have taken the liberty of blurring our reader’s name).

blurredcertificate.jpg

If you are a regular reader of this blog I probably don’t have to tell you that Steve McNeish was 16 years of age at the time he signed that “certificate of authenticity”.

A few weeks later Duncan Oldham told us that Steve had “run away from home”. Oldham said he was so emotionally devasted (and so inconvenienced to have lost his gofer) that he would give up Koptalk if Steve did not come back. At other times he told us that Steve had been helping out on Koptalk since he was about ten years old. He published photos of the younger and older version of Steve on his site.

Would you accept a Certificate of Authenticity from Steve? First there was the question of his age. Can a 16 year old be responsible for a signed commercial contract? Was Oldham using this boy to avoid his own direct involvement in a fraud? The operative word is “used” because Oldham has told us many times how “impressionable” and “thick” and “illiterate” Steve is. He has also told us many times in many different ways how he controls Steve.

Apart from those biographical details would you accept a certificate that the signatures were genuine from the person who had sold them to you if that person was not the original signer or the orignal signers ’s club or the club’s official agent authorised to sell and give certificates. Because there was nothing in that certificate that proved any of this.

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The reader first wrote to the blog in the summer. Insider Insider sent him a couple of links where he could read up on the issue of fake signatures and get some help in identifying those on the ball he had received from Koptalk.

But it didn’t help – he still could not recognise any of the signatures.

He did not write to us again until he read my article last week mentioning other readers who had written to us about their unease that they had been sold fake stuff by Kotpalk. If you did not see that article I have reproduced it below.

If you have any information or advice that would help our reader, and the blog, establish the truth in this matter, please get in touch in the public Comments box below or privately by email. As always we respect your confidentiality.

rupertinsider@gmail.com

Before reading my earlier article why not look at the two links the blog sent to our reader in the summer – about the problem of fake LFC player signatures .

Sports Signings shows how to tell fakes from the real thing.

Sporting Idols comments on the fake stuff and how con men operate.


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Fake and missing LFC memorabilia?

Published December 1st, 2006

 

by Rupert Insider detectiveinglasses3.gif

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A number of our readers have told us that they are uneasy about the authenticity of LFC memorabilia they bought or ordered from Koptalk in the last few years. It includes footballs and shirts. We want to help them establish the truth.

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If you ordered memorabilia from Koptalk in the last 3-4 years please tells us what happened. You can write in strict confidence or post publicly in the Comments section. By sharing your experiences you may find out if they were unique or part of a pattern. It may be your contribution that encourages others to write in.

rupertinsider@gmail.com

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The Sales

Koptalk sold the memorabilia as being authentically signed by individual players or the entire team. Because of this they fetched prices up to £500 per item, perhaps more.

They were sold in a variety of ways:

  • promoted on the Koptalk website:
  • promoted by email offers sent by Koptalk to individual members:
  • by a Koptalk auction on E-bay.

Some of the sales were said to be in aid of charity – for Lauren, whom Duncan Oldham claimed was his cousin, or for other appeals. Because sales were for charity, bidders tended to bid more than they normally would.

Causes of Unease

The unease arises from a number of cumulative factors:

  • Some of the memorabilia was sent without certificates of authentication. In cases were the recipient repeatedly insisted on a certificate one was belatedly produced and signed by Steve, the 15 or 16-year-old (as he was then) step-brother of Oldham or by Oldham, himself:
  • In some cases no invoice was provided and there were other oddities about the transaction:
  • In some cases an item was offered at auction as a one-off. After Koptalk announced that it had been sold and delivered to the highest bidder, it sent private letters to other bidders offering them an identical item if they would repeat their failed bid.
  • In some cases, the money was paid but the item not delivered. Koptalk has not responded to enquiries from the buyer.
  • There was no satisfactory explanation of where and how Koptalk obtained the memorabilia and when it was signed.
  • In some cases there are questions about the authenticity of the signatures. These were reinforced when Oldham displayed a photograph of a shirt which he claimed Dirk Kuyt signed in his presence “To Dunk”. But some readers who are experienced in these matters think the photograph has been doctored. While that shirt has not been offered for sale, as far as we know, the possible doctoring of the photo is troubling. Click for the Kuyt shirt story.

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  • Oldham has never published accounts for the Lauren charity and not everyone got a receipt for their donation. He directed that donations be made out to Koptalk or to his mother’s personal account. He is the sole owner of Koptalk and appears to mix business, personal and charitable revenues and expenditures. He has produced no public accounting of the revenues from the sales of the memorabilia for charity.
  • Some buyers have come to learn that Oldham used a football Usenet group to sell illegal Sky satellite cards using a false name, Del Johnson, and was accused by many of his customers of not delivering them and was investigated about it by Trading Standards in North Yorkshire. They have also learned that he has taken deposits for three years on a book he has still not written entitled Anfield Exposed. And they are aware of false representations he has made about direct dealings he said he had with executives of LFC, and other matters that raise questions about his reliability.

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We ask those who have already written to us on this topic before the last two weeks, to write again. If possible give us hard information such as dates and prices and photos or links if you have them. If you give us permission to publish any of your information we would remove any detail that could reveal your identity.

Please let us know if any particular item you bought was sold by Koptalk for the benefit of the Lauren or any other charity.

Similarly, if you have subsequently proven the authenticity of any item you bought and were satisfied with the transaction, let us know that, too. We want to be fair.

We appreciate that not everyone would want to pursue a complaint even if our investigation does reveal something wrong. In that case we would write to you privately to see what you want to do.

Photo: Duncan Oldham of Koptalk and the cover of his phantom book.

Click for details
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28 Responses to “Gerrard, Kuyt, Alonso and Co. – do you recognise their signatures?”

  1. RafaTGafa Says:

    the Luis Garcia and Harry Kewell autographs on that ball are fakes, and really bad ones. SO I suspect the others are as well.

    The signatures are so stuttering and shaky, as if it’s been done really slowly, and of course players wouldn’t sign things slowly, no one would, we write our signatures quickly.

    That ball is so badly faked, there are signatures on it I don’t even recognise as Liverpool players.

  2. rupertinsider Says:

    This comment placed on wrong thread and moved here by me.
    ________________________________________

    JD Dec 10th, 2006 at 6:07 pm

    The supposed Gerrard autograph is all wrong. I’ve got quite a few things signed by him(Birthday cards, shirts, ball) and they look nothing like the one in the close-up photo. I’m sure he will be delighted to find out the fat fuck is doing this.

    I will ensure he hears about this. Maybe something will then be done.

  3. lfc4ever Says:

    For the genuine article, and who is a fully signed up member of Autograph Collectors Group, then visit:

    http://www.retroreds.co.uk/

    And buy with confidence with some of the proceeds going to the HFSG rather than fatty’s deep mingy pockets.

    I can guarantee that fatty does not, and has never, worked with the club and/or players/ex-players or given any funds to anyone outside his shed.

    http://www.retroreds.co.uk/ not only helps out the HSFG, but pays the Legends for their time & effort, something a certain website owner has alwayes refused to do.

    The more that http://www.retroreds.co.uk/ can do, the more that the club will get inlvolved with current players, support the genuine article and not line the pockets of some fat fake rip off merchant.

  4. Johndj Says:

    Found this pic of Stevies autograph

    The ones on the ball look fake as you like

  5. red squared Says:

    A certificate of Authenticity need not be from any major/official body. The concept legaly is as slim as the guarantee from one person to another.

    Those issued by the club are only as good as the clubs honour, which is light years ahead of what has been written here.

    Poor young Steve for being used, but if he is under the legal age for entering into a contract then he cannot be sued. He is after all the one who had signed the certificates and is therefore the one who is personnaly liable should the new owner of whatever is purchased subsequently find it to be a fake.

    I do pitty the poor bastard, but if Steve signed all of the certs then there is nothing to pin on Dunk.

  6. rupertinsider Says:

    Koptalk is a website. It’s not a registered company.

    Oldham chose not to make it a limited company, probably because then he would have to keep books and make corporation tax returns and it would be easier for the VAT inspectors to calculate his sales and his liability to collect VAT. As it is he dodges and weaves between different domain names to artificially reduce the volume. He also prefers cash or non traceable instruments.

    It was his choice not to incorporate. Therefore Koptalk is not a separate and distinct legal or political entity. The effect of this is that his liability is not limited.

    The website is no more than the voice of its sole owner – Duncan Oldham.

    The balls were sold by Koptalk i.e. Oldham. They were advertised by Koptalk on its home page as having authentic signatures and the price included a certificate which would prove the signatures to be authentic. Therefore, this certificate was presented as having legal status.

    The customer entered into a contract with Koptalk i.e. Oldham – not with Steve. The money was paid into Koptalk’s PayPal account i.e. into Oldham’s account.

    Oldham stated that Steve was his i.e. Koptalk’s agent. Clearly he was.

    Koptalk i.e. Oldham is responsible for the sale of the forged signatures and fraudulent certificate.

    Oldham claims to be in total control of what he calls “his site” so it is reasonable to assume he had hand in designing the fake certificate and printing it. He may even have signed it, for all we know. He often uses Steve name when he posts on Koptalk to fool his readers into thinking it is Steve posting.

    Steve is responsible for aiding and abetting a criminal fraud, if that’s what it turns out to be. His age is immaterial. But he should take note that Oldham has used him in a failed attempt to let him take the blame.

    This matter could be reported to the police or to the trading standards office which is presently monitoring Oldham for potential illegal activities.

    If someone wants to treat it as a civil matter, then of course Oldham can be sued. It would be useful also to sue Steve in order to get his evidence on oath. But the main target should be Oldham. According to Oldham, Steve does not even earn a wage, however incredible that is. Come to think of it, nor does Oldham. They both exist on fresh air.

    (Its been suggested that this irrational stance is a cover intended to explain their fraudulent claims for DSS benefits and their failure to file personal income tax returns and pay social insurance contributions. I have no idea if these suspicions are true. It would be easy enough for them to dispell them by making a statement and publishing accounts).

  7. Scambuster Says:

    Interesting read… had a wander over to Koptalk and the shop links to Amazon now, so couldn’t see anything for sale…

    … but for the ultimate in “WTF” ???

    http://www.garyhayesfootballmemorabilia.com

    Anyone know anything about this ?

  8. RedinSweden Says:

    Our lad got a bag off the players last season and none of the sigs look the same as that ball. The ball isn’t even the same type as the one on the original picture. One of the sigs on picture 4 is hilariously bad. I feel gutted for the person who bought this. But this is exactly why this blog is necessary.

  9. scouse Says:

    Picture 4 was the one I picked up on, very un-natural.

    Rupert is exactly right that by not being a proper company and limiting their liabilities that Oldham can actually get into real trouble.

    Come on Koptalk, you’ve been publically torn apart with your potential charity scams and now fake signatures? Why don’t you actually come out in public and reply to the legitimate questions put to you..

  10. Mumsafan Says:

    I have quite a few of the squad’s sigs got by my son when he was mascot, plus I have Owen and Gerrard from the 2003 Worthy final, and Gerrard on a programme. The Gerrard one here is deffo a fake! I have 3 by Gerrard and they all look roughly the same (plus I know it was him as he was stood in front of me signing it), so I can categorically say the Gerrard one is fake. I don’t recognise any of whom the others are meant to be so I can’t help.

  11. Pete Says:

    The pic of u in yer shades makes me laugh, u look like a right chav twat…

  12. ROCK Says:

    ive gotten sigs of stevie gerrard a few times for our kid and it looks all wrong if its meant to be NO.4
    the g is arseways
    i will scan one on here if it helps,let me know.

  13. ROCK Says:

    gary hayes is supposed to be kosher.
    he apprently know fowler well
    but i cant personally gaurantee that.

  14. ROCK Says:

    also, the guys on retro reds are brilliant and would go out of their way for you to do anything AND its a good cause.
    would be no harm if a few of the more popular websites like rawk and ynwa put them in their links.

  15. rupertinsider Says:

    Pete

    “The pic of u in yer shades makes me laugh, u look like a right chav twat…”

    What makes you think the guy in that pic would be bright enough to contribute to a blog like this? He looks more like a dodgy spiv and forger to me – hang on – doesn’t it say right here “this is a picture of Duncan Oldham…”

  16. Johndj Says:

    Just wanted to say sorry for the lack of image. I did include one in mt post but for some reason it didn’t work.

    Those signatures on the ball are definitely fake though.

    Most random autograph I got at Anfield, Roberto Mancini?!?!

  17. RafaTGafa Says:

    Gary Hayes has been subject to various investigations by autograph groups. A couple of websites who expose Ebay fakers and con artists have been looking into Heyes dealings.

    No idea if he is a con man or what, but I’d be a bit suspicious being as so many seem to be looking into his autograph selling!

  18. bob Says:

    there’s an autograph on the ball with a “7” on it so i assume that’s supposed to be Harry Kewell’s, well it looks nothing like Harry’s autograph, here’s a pic of genuine memorabilia with his real autograph on http://www.memorabiliaonline.com.au/images/true_blue/harry_kewell_7.jpg

    this fat cunt needs to be taken to court for this shite he’s peddling.

  19. bob Says:

    plus it’s not even the official Champions League ball, which would have cost around £60 to buy, it appears to be the Adidas Finale Sportivo which was the cheap version retailing for around £15

  20. Scambuster Says:

    Gary Hayes kosher ? Yer having a giraffe… check out the Dalglish sigs – I’ve got sigs from Kenny from 1976 all the way up to 2004 and he’s never signed like that. And the sigs are the same on every Dalglish pic, so it’s not like it was a one-off.

    PLUS – kop the “photo proof” – a few pics taken at the ’81 dinner last month, showing him or the other bloke having their menus signed by a couple of players. On the back of this, he has the gall to advertise a 1981 shirt using the picture of Barney signing it as his proof and claiming it was signed at the dinner. Only problem with this was that only 5 of the 81 team turned up for it and Ray Kennedy certainly hasn’t done any signings this year.

    Finally… check the 1965 squad pictures. All the players, signed in the same pen, same angles etc and presumably at the same time. Somehow doubt that anyone who’s managed to get all these together at once would miss the chance to take a photo.

    Just as crucial a giveaway is the fact that the signatures in the pictures are how the players signed 40 YEARS AGO … anyone who’s met Ian Callaghan, Gerry Byrne, Ian St John or Gordon Milne will confirm their signatures are quite different these days. And those prints are definitely not 40 years old…

    Have had a good look through the site today and forwarded details of my concerns to the club and to a couple of the players who’s sigs I know are fake.

    If these are real I’ll give Fat Dunc a gobble.

  21. ROCK Says:

    let us know if the club reply scambuster
    have a personal interest in this
    thanks

  22. Scambuster Says:

    ROCK…

    Well… mixed news.

    I actually spoke to Sue Griffiths, Brian Hall’s PA, before Christmas about fake Liverpool memorabilia and was told that Brian would call me back. After chasing it for a few days (he did call me back once and I bloody missed him !) I spoke to Sue again who explained that the club ARE aware of several sites that are selling fake memorabilia and that there are investigations going on at the moment that she couldn’t discuss ‘publicly’ as they may prejudice the outcome …

    SO – someone / someones ARE being looked at, and I do know who they are, but I honestly 100% have been told in confidence and can’t divulge that information.

    I was, however, advised to report any suspicious activities to Trading Standards, which I guess a lot of folk are doing anyway.

    Not very helpful, I know, but these things do take time and there is one case that is potentially MASSIVE – seriously, makes Kontalk.com look like Mother Theresa…

    Also mailed the people at retroreds.co.uk to see if any of the players they work with are willing to get involved… similar story – seems they (the site and the players) are all aware of things but have been told to keep mum for the time being.

    Frustrating that nothing can be discussed, but I really do hope it’s not a fob off and that something actually IS being done behind the scenes.

    On a plus side – I got a signed Ian Rush picture promised for a local fundraiser 🙂

  23. Gary Hayes Says:

    If any one would like to discuss Liverpool signatures well no one knows more than Tony Shields. He has been collecting signatures in and around Melwood for 30 odd years and has a back catalogue of signatures going back to Noah. All dealers/collectors who frequent the training ground etc will know Tony and he is my partner. We have been open and honest in all our dealings and the testimony of many major UACC dealers and collectors will testify this both in the UK and worldwide. The business name Garyhayes2005 on ebay and the website http://www.garyhayesfootballmemorabilia.com only sells authentic items and as two fanatical reds are proud that 99% of our stock is Liverpool FC. Visit us in the Supporters Club on Breck Road match days.
    Throughout last Summer we were the target on unfounded allegations from people quite happily hiding behing forum names and happily accusing for the sake of it. That led to my complaint to the UACC concerning the situation.
    I am all for the promoting of Liverpool autographs and also for the outing of “fake” dealers. I am happy to discuss with anyone this situation locally and to meet up to discuss any concerns.
    I am not however going to debate issues with unnamed and unknown people who have there own agenda.

    From then points above – i was at the dinner for the 81 team and at numerous other dinners. There was a very poor turn out at that dinner from the 81 team but i never said all players were there. In fact the 81 shirt had Ray kennedy as it was a shirt from a few years back when through Jimmy Case after a dinner we posted many items to him for him to get Razor to sign when he was having a “better day” as long as we never approached him at the dinner. This we readilly agreed to. The shirts done on the night, contained Case, Johnson, Fairclough, Gayle, Kennedy, Thompson from memory and the rest after the event. Never said ever that wasnt the case. Ray Kennedy hasnt been asked to sign to respect his privacy and illness on these shirts

    Dalglish signatures – from Kenny – to Ken – to his present more scruffy signature. The Dalglish signature has changed over 30 years and who is pretending it hasnt ? – if you want a back catalogue of signature comparisons just ask.

    The Liverpool legends 1965 team – well at some events pictures are not always approrpriate and its only in the last year or so the words photo-proof keep being asked. The majority of players sign pretty much the same, St John a toucher larger and Gerry Byrne couldnt get much larger….otherwise again its just assumpions from hidden names and the photos are 2/3 years old certainly not 40 years old which would never be claimed. if you want a back catalogue of signature comparisons just ask.

    To be honest i think you should be giving Fat Dunc a gobble – i am prepapred to meet you any time to discuss your concerns along with Tony over a pint – non match day. My name is Gary Hayes i dont hide behind names i am always honest and upfront.

    I will not be responding again to this forum as i have said my piece. Some one will come on know in secret and bad mouth me and thats the way forums go. Then i will respond and it goes on and on. So if you want a chat and a pint please email me via the website

    GARY

  24. Scambuster Says:

    Interesting points. However EVERY Dalglish signature you have ever sold has looked the same. I’ve seen it over a period of 12 months. The total must be in the hundreds probably a lot more as I notice a lot of other sellers using your stock too. Sports Icons and Junstin Gooner being just two. Only you – or whoever is selling / obtaining all these Dalglish sigs for you – aren’t very good, as Kenny just doesn’t sign like that – and certainly not consistently. No doubt your future eBay items will start to slowly offer a different signature.

    I don’t need a back catalogue – I’ve a dozen of my own collected in person since 1977 up to 2005, and he’s never signed like you.

    You sell ticket stubs signed by Gerrard ffs ! No seller in his right mind is going to miss an opportunity to get a shirt / photo signed by Gerrard that will fetch a mint – but you decide to get a ticket stub signed that will sell for £3.

    The 1981 shirt – almost a plausible explanation. Well it would be if it was the only one you had. You’ve been selling these for well over a year Gary, sorry, and squad signed ’77 shirts too. Your Keegan needs a bit of work … and your Jimmy Case and Graeme Souness.

    Out of the literally thousands of autographs you have sold and are selling, the only evidence you can give us is a few photos snapped at various dinners. You’ve met Gerrard and Dalglish hundreds of times, but not one shred of evidence to back it up. Poor show.

    You want to meet me ? Well, you’ll be surprised to learn you already have Gary. Twice actually. I even pointed you out to Rowdy Yeats. The next time we meet I’ll say hello and hope we can indeed have a pint.

    I don’t hide behind names either. I am Scambuster. And this too is my last post on this matter.

  25. Anti Fake Says:

    Are you the same Gary Hayes who has just been thrown out of the UACC following an investigation into your activities and who has now been charged with selling fake Liverpool autographs and is in court in March 2009 with your friend Tony Shields ?

    Full statement on the UACC website and here :

    http://www.isitreal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=685&Itemid=47

    Not nice reading.

  26. RedinSweden Says:

    I saw that. Busted, it would seem Mr Hayes. 1-0 to Scambuster.


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