More ways to get out of a refund…

After getting a lot of stick for lying about what the Koptalk Gold Club and Koptalk Insider memberships offer, Koptalk have now changed their Koptalk.coN page to reflect things a little differently. Have they started to tell the truth though? Let’s go through it.

First of all the links have changed. The front page of Koptalk.coN now has just two links under a heading of “VIP MEMBERS”. The links are “Join Now” which links to http://koptalk.coN/detail_subtitle.php?subid=147 and “Existing Members” which takes you to the front page of the insider/gold club forums, at http://www1.koptalkinsider.coN/forums/myhome.php?Cat=0.

He’s not yet got round to applying this policy to the headlines he stick in the middle of his front page though, where he’s still talking about “Insider” and “Gold Club”.

So what do you see when you click “Join Now”? Has he reformed and made his new information more accurate?

Let’s see…

If you’re a mature, die-hard Liverpool supporter, who can’t get enough of the Mighty Reds, then become a KopTalk Member today. If it’s an absolute must that you keep up to date with everything that’s happening at Anfield, we have the perfect solution for you and all for the less than 9p-a-day! (He’s not checked it properly – no need for the “the”. What a band they were… Anyway, back on topic. It’s interesting to see now that members aren’t members unless they’ve paid. I’m sure people who registered for the “free” forums used to be classed as members too at one time.)

Our coverage of Liverpool Football Club is unrivalled.
(No other site steals so much content, or makes so much up. After that it’s no better than any other site. And if it was unrivalled, why does the owner talk so much about “rival sites”?) Brought to you by real Liverpool fans (questionable, seeing as the owner is a Newcastle season ticket holder and if he’s not using the ticket his partner-in-crime Steve uses it) and not media giants, KopTalk is the only place to be for independent coverage of the Reds. (Hang on; Koptalk is part of the “caboodle network” according to its home page. The home page of the “caboodle network”, at caboodlenetwork.coN, says “Providing media content and hosting facilities to hundreds of clients in Europe and the U.S.A.” So which site is spouting the lie there then? You can’t be a media giant on one hand and a little amateur set-up on the other can you? If you are going to lie, try to be consistent.)

With an internet presence now stretching 10 years, we’re the website that the others try to rival.
(Duncan Oldham might have been on the internet for 10 years, but KopTalk hasn’t. We can find Duncan’s early Usenet posts thanks to, including his wife-swapping ads and Sky-card scams, but Koptalk is not 10 years old. Koptalk has not had a “presence” for 10 years on the net. Another correction required.) Your KopTalk Membership will help keep you completely up to date at all times. (No it won’t. There are a few posts where members have wondered why information appeared elsewhere well before it appeared on Koptalk. My last post on this blog was one example. Another correction required.)

All our member areas are moderated 24/7 by KopTalk staff which means you will be free of rival fans and immature Reds that can spoil your entertainment.
(All of Duncan’s moderators have now left, give or take a couple of stragglers. Duncan has little choice but to use “Koptalk staff”, because his volunteers are gone. Moderator duties overnight are carried out by Duncan’s game-boy friend Smooch. The number of sarcastic cryptic posts is growing though, because the moderators left behind are too slow to notice the references to either this blog or one of the sites created by former members disillusioned at the lies.) This means at least one member of our team is online every minute of every day overseeing things for you.

For the 2006-07 campaign we’ll be providing frequent updates from Melwood.
(Another correction required here Duncan – it should read “from OUTSIDE Melwood”. You aren’t allowed in. You are at the back of the queue as far as access to Melwood is concerned, and in fact all of your photos and videos, taken from ladders, wheelie bins or through holes in fences are an invasion of privacy.) Get to know who’s doing what and when thanks to our new base in West Derby. (You’ve not got a base in West Derby. That is a fact which you admit yourself. You are still based in Wallsend and Scarborough. If you do buy a house in Liverpool then fair enough you can talk about it then, but for now you can’t. So that’s another correction you need. Without that correction you’ll have people thinking you’ve actually bought Chris Waddle’s Liverpool home. And if you have put an offer in on a house, why not show us some details – perhaps name your estate agent. Otherwise we all continue not to believe you.) We’ve also just purchased a huge van which will enable us to tour the UK and Europe following the Reds around on behalf of our members. This will be kitted out with the very latest equipment to enable us to provide mobile broadcasts and updates exclusively to you. (Now that’s what I call bullshit. For a lot of reasons. Here’s one: Liverpool’s next away fixture is across the park at Goodison. You won’t be there, because you’ll be in your portacabin at 5 Swan Avenue in Walsall, doing your so-called “radio” broadcast. So this “huge van” isn’t even being put into use for the derby? Is that because it doesn’t actually exist by any chance? What a great photo opportunity that is for you – your new “huge van”, with all its kit inside. Yet we’ve not seen one photo of it. It doesn’t exist, so there’s another correction for you to work on.)

Not convinced?
(Funny you should say that…)Well don’t listen to what our rivals or the fans we’ve kicked off our forums over the years have to say, read what our existing members think! (So that means they can still listen to me then. This site is not a rival of Koptalk’s. I am not someone you’ve kicked off your forum.) New members join every day and we’d love you to become the next member of our Red family. (Part of that sentence is correct. Remove the “new members join every day” bit, because that isn’t true, and don’t call it a “Red family” because Koptalk isn’t run by Reds. Perhaps you could put, “We’d love you to join because we’re running out of members.” At least that would be true.)

We then get a list of reasons why you should part with your money. Well seeing as most of the stuff above was false maybe this list will be more honest…

Unlimited access to the world’s ONLY LFC website for VIP Liverpool supporters (This claim is nonsense. Read it back and try to make sense of it. Who decides that the people who join your site are VIPs? Aren’t all Reds VIPs anyway? To other Reds they are, with just a few exceptions here and there. Therefore all LFC Websites are for VIP Liverpool supporters. A correction is needed here, perhaps use, “One of only two forums where Liverpool supporters have to pay to take part.” That’s true, the other site being LFC’s official E-season forum. Although you get a lot more than a chance to post on a forum for your LFC money.)

Exclusive news and reports from inside Anfield and Melwood
(Correction required. Remove the word “Exclusive”, because you never have anything exclusive. Remove the word “inside”, because you’re not allowed inside Melwood, and you’ve only got into Anfield with your centenary stand Season Tickets because they are probably in someone else’s name. And that’s if you’ve still got them – because you’ve still not shown us one single picture of them! Regardless of that, you would be one of 40-odd thousand who were “inside” Anfield at that time.)

NEW for 2006-07: Exclusive training sessions reports direct from Melwood (Correct this. Add the fact that you are spying from over the wall at Melwood, not from inside Melwood. And remind readers that because you live hundreds of miles from West Derby that you’ll not be able to get too many training sessions covered. And on those days there’ll be less actual news to report, because there’ll be nobody around to steal bits from the other sites.)

NEW for 2006-07: Exclusive photos direct from Melwood – see the lads train
(Again, remind readers that these are long-lens paparazzi-style pictures cropped to hide the bits of fence you are peeping through. Also, if LFC take out an injunction against you, will you be giving refunds?)

FREE worldwide SMS alerts of all major LFC news as it happens
(I’ve still not got much to convince me that this happens as often you say it does.)

FREE worldwide SMS alerts of every confirmed first team line-up
(I’ve still not got much to convince me that this happens as often you say it does.)

FREE worldwide SMS alerts of every first team goal scored as it happens
(I’ve still not got much to convince me that this happens as often you say it does.)

FREE worldwide SMS alerts of all competitive first team results
(I’ve still not got much to convince me that this happens as often you say it does.)

FREE LFC email address by request e.g.
(I think that you’ll find that this domain isn’t really one for you to use – it belongs to LFC really. Give it back to the club that you claim to support.)

Unlimited access to advertisement free content for all your LFC news i.e. no ads!
(What’s that? So “advertisement free” means “no ads”? Well who’d have guessed? Some of your news items are ads though aren’t they Mr Oldham? And if you were sensible about the ads you used you’d find people wouldn’t really be all that bothered. Adult Friend Finder and those tacky pop-ups and pop-unders are a pain in the backside. I’m glad I use software to block them all 100%.)

Unlimited access to our Executive Lounges (discussion forums) – moderated 24/7!
(So kind – access to the forums you’ve paid for. Until you’re banned of course)

*Guaranteed FREE place for KOPTALK RADIO audio updates on match-day
(Free place for a free (and very poor) service? Why, is the service not capable of dealing with demand or something? Must be a pretty poor service Koptalk use then, if it can’t deal with 20 listeners at once)

*Links to FREE audio and/or video of LFC first team matches – watch and listen live!
(No there aren’t. And if there are it’s what you get elsewhere on the net by searching for words like ‘stream’ and ‘Liverpool’ and so on.)

*Details of any satellite feeds to enable reception of individual first team fixtures
(Taken from other websites.)

*Guaranteed FREE place for our match-day chatroom
(Join Dunk, Steve Jeanette and someone who got the wrong chatroom up by mistake.)

Unlimited access to your own photo gallery (browse and/or upload)
(One thing that’s remotely worthwhile, although for this amount of money I’d expect a lot more than what I’m getting so far.)

FREE weekly Lotto syndicate particicpation – at least 100 x £1 lines-a-month!
(Rubbish. You’ve only bought the tickets once. And you’ve a typo in there too.)

FREE weekly Football Pools syndicate particicpation
(Rubbish – you’ve never bought the coupons. And you’ve the same typo in there too. )

NEW for 2006-07: FREE weekly Football Millionaire syndicate particicpation (Put this in the same category as the Lotto and Pools. Do you have problems with that word or something?)

FREE enamel KopTalk-LFC 5 Times badge!
(How proud you’ll be wearing that in front of other Liverpool supporters, as they laugh uncontrollably at you for being a member of the Loony Toon’s website. Even the badgeman wouldn’t wear one.)

Priority support including direct line with the KOPTALK editor
(Lie. There is no information whatsoever about a direct line to the Koptalk editor. Steve is not the editor, he has not editorial control whatsoever. And you’ve got to ring a premium rate number to speak to him.)

FREE P.A. cover for whenever you’re away from the office or home (Nope. Sorry. It’s not actually provided, and it never has been. Take it off the list please.)

Match Previews & Match Reports (These are taken from other sites – so you can read the BBC’s report, or the Guardian’s. He doesn’t give you anything for that 30 quid that you can’t get somewhere else free of charge.)

Help with match-day tickets through interaction with other members
(You mean exactly what happens on other sites? Free? And why not mention your special personal touting service too? Admit how much of a profit you’ve made from selling tickets to Liverpool supporters in recent times.)

25% discount off all KOPTALK merchandise when advertised
(Ah – you’ve changed this a bit. It used to be 25% off everything offered for sale by you, including kits. Now it’s just your own merchandise only, which at the moment stands at the sum total of those crappy badges you can’t give away. So remove this line – it’s not relevant!)

Every major Rick Parry and Rafael Benitez quote
(Every time Rafa or Rick talk to the media, Oldham cuts and pastes their quotes from whichever other website he finds it on, into a special section of his forum. Worth 30 quid? Not worth 30p really.)

*Links to first team goals usually within a few minutes of full-time (3rd party)
(Which 3rd party is it? The last person to provide you with any clips has since been banned by you and is now providing clips elsewhere instead. He was banned for advertising the other website’s name I think. So unless you’ve found someone else to do it for you there’s no 3rd party. Which is it – you providing the clips or nobody providing the clips? You’re adding “3rd Party” because you think that makes you immune from being prosecuted. WRONG!)

He then uses those quotes from around 5 years ago about his site, when it was actually fairly good. He’s not had any good quotes for years. Then comes the disclaimer that gets him out of jail. He thinks…

*Subject to availability. KopTalk does not have an archive of any video or audio footage nor do we stream games. Members can usually assist in helping you watch the Reds live online.
(So – do you have video or audio footage available or not? You need to give your potential customers and the authorities the same answer – the truth. Either you do provide the stuff (in which case the authorities would like a word) or you don’t (in which case you need to stop trying to make money from something that isn’t there!) Links to video clips of LFC goals, interviews etc are provided by members when available. (So you are now saying that there’s no goal clips guaranteed at all, you are relying on your members to provide them. And most of your members buggered off long ago. So you are selling something you’ve not got. Like the Sky Cards in the late 90s.) We reserve the right to change, add or remove content and features without notice. (Sorry, but that’s not acceptable. Not unless you also offer your customers a refund for the remaining part of their subscription. And it should be as easy to get that refund as it was to pay you in the first place – online if necessary.) If your membership is cancelled due to any form of abuse to another member or if you are identified as posting any form of ‘spam’, you will forfeit your right to any full or part refund. (“Any form of abuse”. What does that mean exactly? “Any form of ‘spam’” – what does that mean? To me it means you’ll not refund a penny to anyone who makes the slightest complaint, or anyone who wants to leave. You justified ringing somebody up at work and making threats towards them because of what you classed as “abuse”, when it was only a bit of constructive criticism. Also note Dunk’s new word for “banned” – “cancelled”.)

Are you unhappy with the service you got from Koptalk? Are you looking for a refund and being refused one every time you ask? Or have you more serious complaints you’d like to make about Koptalk, such as the money that seems to have been stolen from Lauren, or the lack of services that were offered? Remember, the rules that were in place when you joined are the rules that apply to you, not the ones he changes by the day. You may also be unhappy with the idea that the service is being run by a teenager working 17 hours a day when on benefits.

If you want to contact Trading Standards, this is the person who is now looking into Koptalk and Duncan Oldham. Please be sensible in whatever you say to him, don’t get in touch if you’ve no real complaint. If you have got a reason to get in touch though then please do – the more complaints they receive the better.

The person to contact is Alan Burnett of North Tyneside Trading Standards service.


North Tyneside Metropolitan Borough Council,

Environment Regeneration & Housing Directorate

The Killingworth Site

PO Box 113

Station Road


Newcastle Upon Tyne

NE12 6WJ


7 Responses to “More ways to get out of a refund…”

  1. rupertinsider Says:

    “The forums are closed but will open later” – is the notice if you try to enter a free site. Then it says “if you want to become a member go here”. That takes you to his sales pitch for the paid membership deal.

    It’s not clear to me. Is he now saying that only members will be given access and that all members must pay?

    If so he is getting rid of probably two thirds of the visitors to his site. Hard to believe. But it is something he has discussed openly from time to time – running a paid “VIP” only site because he doesn’t make anything – or not enough – from the lurkers.

    A big business mistake if he tries it.

    It might be just another shady dodge. Close the forums for a short while, force non-paying visitors to visit his sales pitch and snare a few of them into paying. Then open the free forums again and repeat the formula again and again.

    I notice his final disclaimer about the video links and the refunds is in barely legible half-tone typeface. Talk about reading the small print!

    I will report to the club his claim to provide information from Melwood as part of his paid service . It is a lie and it is also fraudulently trading on LFC’s name, reputation and the privacy of its managemetn and players. It would be grounds for a refund if anyone joined on those terms.

    As for his big van – I was waiting for that ever since he featured the George Micheal at Hampstead Heath story on his “radio” show. He was fascinated with the idea that the guy from Brighton who met Michael arrived from Brighton with a van in which he had layed out a mattress on the floor.

    Expect to see Oldham begging for a van-sized mattress soon. Probably for one of his sick “cousins”.

  2. univofchicago Says:

    I have this funny feeling its a shady dodge rups…

    Regardless, its still a victory for the blog.

    Just give it up Oldham…

  3. chapeau du soleil Says:

    Can anyone REALLY see him having the bottle to set up home in West Derby? There’d be a queue stretching to Runcorn of people wanting to have a chat with him.

  4. The Oracle Says:

    What gets me about his sales pitch is that he actually includes a mini-rant in it as well:

    “Not convinced? Well don’t listen to what our rivals or the fans we’ve kicked off our forums over the years have to say…”

    I’m not sure that including the above statement will actually get you more members, instead it might actually put people off if they feel that there is a negative aspect to what your selling!!

    Oldham’s losing it, bigtime.

  5. Tom Says:

    He’s not exactly anonymous is he. I can just picture him waddling down hope street….. he’ll stand out a mile……

  6. dublinred Says:

    SMS were sent, I received many.
    But even so, it wasn’t much that I didn’t already know. I watch the games (either on TV or t’internet), so you tend to see lineups and know when goals are scored.
    Also any “news” I got, I had already seen on any of the various sites I visit.

    He did send them, but to me they are quite gimmicky.

  7. Toby Says:

    It’ll be a temporary measure to avoid prying eyes (the club, the council, the police, the tax man?) and also an easy way of grabbing a handful more £30s before he reverts back to a free service, leaving those few gullible fans out of pocket.

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