Koptalk's photographer – David Rawcliffe

I sent the following email to David Rawcliffe of Propaganda Photo Agency tonight. 

I feel it’s important to warn all possible business associates of Mr Oldham and Koptalk of just what they might be getting into. 

From: KT Insider
To: (Email addresses removed, but taken from Propaganda Photo Website)
Cc: editor@koptalk.com
Date: Jul 25, 2006 12:41 AM
Subject: Koptalk’s photographer – David Rawcliffe
Mr Rawcliffe,

I’ve emailed the “david@propaganda…” address on two separate occasions before this evening; I did not receive a reply on either occasion. I am sending this note to the other email addresses you supply on your site in the hope that at least one of the addresses will reach somebody willing to respond.

I and many others are currently contributing to a website where we are exposing some of the facts about Mr Duncan Oldham, owner of Koptalk, which he’d prefer others didn’t get to hear. The website can be reached at http://www.koptalk-insider.com, http://www.koptalksucks.com or http://www.koptalkinsider.wordpress.com .

In our previous emails to Propaganda, we asked whether you were doing business knowingly with Mr Oldham, or whether you were actually a victim of his constant copyright theft. It’s become increasingly clear that you are doing business with Oldham, as we’d suspected.

This is unfortunate.

What isn’t clear is how much you know about Oldham and why so many people are willing to put so much unpaid time into dealing with him. As someone who lives in Liverpool and makes money from Liverpool Football Club, we don’t feel you would want to do business with him if you did know everything about him.

First of all, please allow me to make one request – read the rest of this email with an open mind. This email is being published on the website at the same time as we send it to you, so we hope you will have the good grace to respond. That way the thousands of visitors each day to the website will get a chance to hear your side of the story.

I’ll write this note assuming you don’t know why our website was set up and why it gets such a high interest level.

Koptalk is run by someone who has had many allegations made against him. None of the allegations are particularly nice. Some are heavier than others. Some may not be considered particularly a problem by many.

The vast majority of Liverpool supporters, and indeed Liverpool Football Club itself, are aware of why he and his websites should not be viewed by Liverpool supporters.

1) Duncan Oldham and Koptalk support The Sun. Duncan Oldham admits he gets it delivered every day. He visits their website. He makes a point of telling his readers this. He publishes extracts of stories from it on his website most days. From time to a time a forum member will post an article from the Sun on the Koptalk website. If another member points out why this is wrong, Duncan will back the original member and indeed ridicule the member who had pointed out the error. His attitude towards the boycott of The Sun is that it no longer matters. He tries to persuade his own members that the boycott is no longer relevant. He uses many excuses to say why Koptalk wants its visitors to end their boycott of The Sun. As a result many overseas and younger supporters of Liverpool FC think The Sun is acceptable to Liverpool FC and its supporters. I assume you know all about the boycott. I assume you know that the boycott on The Sun is still in place. I hope you also back the boycott.

2) Duncan Oldham and Koptalk take money from Liverpool supporters that they can ill afford in return for something he actually does not deliver. He has claimed over many years to have regular meetings with Rick Parry. Rick Parry has never met him. He has claimed over many years to have access to Anfield, Melwood and the Academy. He has no such access. He has claimed over many years to be in the know about transfers, investment and many other aspects of life insider Anfield. In return he’s asked Liverpool supporters to give him up to £30 a year to access all the information he gets from these sources. In effect he’s stolen from Liverpool supporters, who in many cases genuinely believed he had real contacts at the club.

3) Duncan Oldham and Koptalk have collected all kinds of donations for charity over many years, in many cases asking for payments to be made to either Koptalk or a member of the Oldham family. Despite being asked many times for proof that the donations have indeed made their way to the intended recipient, Mr Oldham has chosen instead to keep this information to himself. He’s asked for money for his own family from time to time too, claiming he’s been in financial difficulties. Shortly afterwards he will be boasting about some expensive luxury he’s bought for himself. It may be a coincidence, it may all have a very good explanation, but Mr Oldham is yet to provide any evidence that he has acted honourably. Again, the implication is that he has stolen from Liverpool supporters.

4) Mr Oldham claims to employ his step-brother, seventeen-year-old Steven MacNeish, as his assistant at Koptalk. He claims not to pay Mr MacNeish a wage, instead paying him by providing benefits in kind. A similar arrangement exists with Mr Oldham’s mother, Jeanette. Mr MacNeish is claimed (by Mr Oldham) to work 19 hour days, 7 days a week. Although we doubt this is true, it is clear Mr MacNeish is prevented from either working for a wage or from studying at a further education establishment. Some current and former Koptalk members are in the process of contacting both the DWP and HMRC to see if he is not committing fraud.

5) Duncan Oldham and Koptalk have been carrying out the practise of stealing copyrighted content from elsewhere practically since the site first came to the internet. Oldham has taken content from other websites and reproduced it in full without asking for permission, and in many cases without crediting the original copyright owner. The reason your association with Oldham came to light was because he’d been stealing photographs from elsewhere for many years without acknowledging the source. The day he started to acknowledge you and your agency as a source stood out extremely clearly. He creates and publishes stolen clips of Premiership goals, sometimes when a game is in play, as part of the site he is paid £30 per year for. He does not have the rights to do this; he does not pay royalties for this. Even Liverpool Football Club’s official site is not legally entitled to do this.

6) Koptalk do not allow freedom of speech on their site. Koptalk do not allow users to ask questions about Koptalk. Not even simple, innocent constructive questions. Any use doing so will be banned from the site. No money is refunded, no warning is given.

7) Duncan Oldham has been taking deposits of £5 from Liverpool supporters since 2003 for a book which quite clearly is not likely to ever be published. He claims he’ll be printing 20,000 copies. He makes a lot of claims about his book. He said it would be finished this year fairly recently, now he says it will be “This season”. He intends to continue his habit of slurring Liverpool FC and its current and former players and staff. For some strange reason the information he has against other people can’t be published on the web, only in a book. I’m sure your knowledge of legal issues in the world of publishing are such that you’ll see the big flaw in this. http://www.anfieldexposed.com is his website to publicise this book and make his claims.

8) Duncan Oldham slurs Liverpool FC and its current and former players and officials. Recent claims include him stating he had taped evidence of Peter Crouch talking to The Sun. He said he would use this evidence to end Peter Crouch’s Liverpool career at a time of his choosing. He later claimed he’d only been joking. He certainly made no such claim when he was making his libellous comments and subsequent threats regarding Peter Crouch. He’s also claimed to have Rick Parry desperately waiting for Duncan Oldham to meet him. Many people took Duncan Oldham’s comments to suggest he had some form of blackmail in mind. When reading these comments in conjunction with some of Duncan Oldham’s claims on his “book” website it’s actually potentially quite damaging to Liverpool Football Club.

9) Duncan Oldham tells a lot of lies. Far too many to list in one email. The majority of his lies are designed to defend him from these allegations, to make more money for him, or to hurt others. That includes hurting Liverpool FC if it suits his agenda. You may well have been lied to yourself by Mr Oldham, it’s almost certain that you will have been. Whether it’s a lie about why he banned one of his paying customers from accessing the service they’ve paid for, or lying about knowing Sol Campbell is in a hotel waiting to sign for Liverpool, Oldham lies regularly. He literally lies himself in circles, contradicting his own lies. His previous tactic to avoid detection on this has been to delete the evidence from his own site, and to ban any member who admits to remembering the previous contradictory comments. The production of our new website means he’s not been able to remove the evidence. He’s even lied about his support of The Sun – he used a photo of himself wearing a promotional hat from The Sun at France 1998. He claimed when pulled up about this recently that he wore that hat because being from outside Merseyside, he hadn’t known about the boycott in 1998. We provided evidence that showed he did know about the boycott in 1998. He still refuses to explain that contradiction.

10) Mr Oldham has reportedly refused to pay past contributors to his website. He’s had professional writers producing articles for him, and agreed to pay them for their services. Those writers, including former Liverpool players, were not paid for their work. If you have agreed to provide services to Mr Oldham, and you expect to be paid for it, I suggest you demand payment in advance. You’ll not be paid in full if you allow him to pay after he’s made use of your photographs. If you try to let it be known that you’ve not been paid, and he follows his previous tactics to avoid paying for services, he’ll make efforts to discredit you with false allegations.

Time is ticking on as I write this, and rather than listing the rest of the reasons why you really should not be seen as an associate of Mr Oldham, I’ll stop at number ten in that list. If that hasn’t made you ask yourself some questions then I suggest you read the website. In it you’ll find out about his life as “Del Johnson”, a pirate Sky-card salesman and much more.

Mr Oldham is now claiming you are his photographer, or the Koptalk photographer. You will become known as “David Rawcliffe, Koptalk photographer”. Alternatively you will become known as “Propaganda – the Koptalk photo agency”. I doubt you would appreciate this, in light of the top ten list above.

Here’s what Mr Oldham said about you this evening.

On his “free” site he said this alongside some of your photographs: “Liverpool Football Club and adidas revealed their new kits today and pretty smart they are too! Although we’ve already covered the launch with links to the official club website, we thought that you may like to see a couple of snaps taken by our photographers.”

On his pay site, he said this: “I’ve been too busy to get as many on as I wanted… but anyway, just incase you missed them, here’s two shots our photographer took at today’s press conference/marketing launch of the new kit.

As stated previously, we’ll have press conferences covered this season. Independent websites are not allowed access but third parties working on our behalf – either directly or indirectly – are. There are conditions that we have to stick to if using images. During the next year we will shell out around £12,000 on images to use on the site. Further details will be announced in time for the new season.

Our friends in the national media will be dropping us snippets of info from Melwood etc during the season but they obviously have to look after their own interests first.”

I doubt this is how you saw things when you entered into business with Mr Oldham, but that’s how he sees it. And your association with Koptalk will gradually tar you with the same brush as him. Liverpool fans on the Internet will see your name and think of Koptalk. At the moment Liverpool fans see the Koptalk name and think “The Sun”. Liverpool fans see Duncan Oldham’s name and think of all kinds of unpleasantness.

Many readers have told us how they see people when they go to the game that they don’t see otherwise – and how they’ll be spreading the word about Koptalk to those people. Koptalk’s reputation has been made by Duncan Oldham but he’s tried very hard to hide it. Unfortunately for him those days are now gone.

If you speak to Duncan about this email (we’ll copy it to him too) he’ll no doubt speak of jealous rival websites and former banned members. I’m not banned from Koptalk, I am still a member, even if now solely for the purpose of investigating Mr Oldham. The website is not here for making any kind of money from Liverpool FC – we advertise every other Liverpool FC website we can think of to show former members of Koptalk that there are alternatives. We are a blog, not a rival website.

He may make allegations of threats he’s received to his family. Ask him for proof of this. Ask him for evidence. He’ll have none. None from this website anyway, we’ve been asking for proof of this for some time now.

In fact listen to the allegations he makes about this website when he tries to defend himself. They are the same allegations he’ll make about you if you try to get him to pay up for the services you’ve provided.

Thank you for taking the time to read this email, I don’t intend writing to you again without receiving a reply first. I’d like to hear your side of the story, but you have so far been unwilling. Others have spotted the link between you and Mr Oldham without my prompting.

Regards,

Insider Insider

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41 Responses to “Koptalk's photographer – David Rawcliffe”

  1. rupertinsider Says:

    If David Rawcliffe is reading this, I would just add to what Insider had said, that Ian Cotton, Head of Press at LFC wrote an email last week in which he denied that Oldham or Koptalk had access to any LFC PCs.

    It is against LFC policy to give such access to unofficial sites.

    He also confirmed what we all knew, that Oldham does not have any contact with Rick Parry and has no contact with or access to the club or its employees.

    For Oldham, its all about appearances – false appearances. If he can convince kids and overseas supporters that he does have access to LFC – by bribing gatemen, or journalists or officials, he can then con them into believing that if they pay him money he will admit them into this charmed circle of exclusive information.

    All this is consistent with his S** like views on “thieving scousers ” who can be bought for a few pounds or a few pints. His proposition is that LFC and Liverpool is riddled with dishonest employees willing to risk their jobs to supply this Yorkshire-Newcastle businessman with privileged and copyrighted information for him to sell on.

    Clearly Oldham is attempting to circumvent LFC’s considered policy by using you to claim that KopTalk has a photographer – what he calls an “official representative” – at LFC press conferences and games.

    Even if you do decide to work for him you know that you have not been given press privileges by LFC because you are an official representative of KopTalk or Oldham. I can guarantee you that if you applied for a press pass on those terms you would be denied.

    Are you going to allow Oldham to put you in a false position with relation to LFC and its supporters?

    Even before I read Insider’s email to you, even before I was aware of Oldhams’ announcement today, I had already written to LFC to inform it of the possibility that he would be using you or your agency to circumvent LFC decision to exclude him.

    I also sent LFC the photograph you took recently of Rafa and Rick Parry looking at a mobile phone. I know you were not responsible for what he did to it because I have seen your original image. But he placed a black bar over the eys of a man standing behing the pair to imply that that man was one of his informers. Are you aware that he doctored your photo to make his con more convincing?

    Oldham’s entire premise is that he is in a struggle against the “suits” at LFC. Indeed he depicts himself as the scourge of LFC, its directors, its chairman and executive director – whom he wants to be sacked – and he is against the official site, which he refers to as “the other side”. He conducts campaigns against players. Daily he expresses contempt for individual Liverpool supporters.

    His exploitative attitude to our club is summarised in the title of his non-existent book “Anfield Exposed”.

  2. Neil Says:

    2) Duncan Oldham and Koptalk take money from Liverpool supporters that they can ill afford….

    That’s the only bit I don’t like. Many have stated on here already that it’s not about the money and for many, £26 or £15 or £5 deposits are nothing, whether they get what they paid for or not. That’s the sort of thing that gets Fatty’s support crew arguing semantics while sidestepping the issue in comment after comment. (There’s always mention of £30, but isn’t the Gold Club £26?)

    Look forward to David Rawcliffe’s or Propaganda’s reply. Good work.

  3. Matt Says:

    Excellently written.

  4. Ste Says:

    From what Dunk has said above about having the press conferences covered etc, I think it’s clear that this photography company, Propoganda, might be one of his sources or third parties. They will be notified of press conferences etc as they will have photography accreditation, so part of the deal with Koptalk could be that they leak this info straight to him? I look forward to the company clearing up whether they have a deal as an informer to Koptalk, not just for news conferences, but for images from the training ground and other bits of gossip that you get from having such close access.

  5. rupertinsider Says:

    Earlier on Monday Oldham announced that he would be at “Anfield Stadium” in the afternoon.

    I picked up on it in one of my comments because I knew he would not be granted access to the conference to launch the new kits.

    Conveniently he does not mention his promised “visit” but talks about the snaps taken by the “KT photographer”.

    Maybe he had been planning on passing off the snaps to prove he was there, but changed his mind and decided to admit that the snaps were taken by someone else. Who knows? He seems incapable of straight dealing in any of his statements to his members or readers. He always got away with it before this blog started logging him and cross-checking his claims.

    We are still waiting for his twice announced visit to Rick Parry to negotiate about something that he says Rick wants from him.

  6. rupertinsider Says:

    On the specific issue of breaching copyright of photographs- he did it on Monday. In fact he told us in advance that he would breach copyright on that photo.

    Those of you who listened to his pod on Sunday would have heard him reading the newspapers and spotting a photo of Rafa sitting on the bench with his tongue out just as a female passed. Oldham was on it in a flash. He didn’t care about copyright and all that stuff, he said, it was going on his site pronto. And so it did. He captioned it in CAPS in BOLD type and had it linked on News Now. I’ve no idea how many hits it earned him or how much money he pocketed from it . He paid nothing for it to the photograher who took it or the newspaper who paid for rights to it. He never even mentioned their names.

  7. F*****up Says:

    He also stole a photo from liverpool.no a couple of years ago. When liverpool.no confronted him with it, he threatend to sue them.

  8. univofchicago Says:

    great email insider-insider.

    will be very surprised if mr rawcliffe does not reply again.

  9. Kopdan Says:

    If he does reply, can you ask him if I can have a shit load of photos as I would like to make some more LFC related wallpapers for my site.

  10. Tom Says:

    Me too please! If it’s a general free-for-all on copyrighted material can I be in on it too!

  11. fat_boy_fat Says:

    I’d be very surprised if he did reply to be honest.

    He is running a business and i suspect for now he will continue with his deal. Maybe over the coming months if the heat becomes more then maybe he will reconsider. So possible its going to have to take any photo’s Oldham changes or comments he made and tell Mr Rawcliffe. Hopefully when a number of different fans view their disgust he will have a change of heart, because it will then be daming his buisness name in Liverpool.

  12. Toby Says:

    Good letter, but you missed the main valid point which would put an end to the relationship – the fact that Koptalk does not have permission to publish photos from within Anfield and as such, by selling the photos to him David Rawcliffe is risking losing his press accreditation.

  13. Chunky Says:

    Very surprised that Dave would deal with Koptalk. He’s a red and very passionate.

  14. univofchicago Says:

    “When liverpool.no confronted him with it, he threatened to sue them”

    sue them for what?!?!? could you enlighten me on this?

    that is pathetic…

  15. Disco Says:

    I’d love to see him reply, but it’s such a mixed bag of accusations that he probably won’t bother. Good letter though.

    PS I’d like a load of photoes also 😉

  16. Insider Insider Says:

    I’ve heard this before about the liverpool.no photograph – perhaps someone from liverpool.no would be so kind as to run the story by us in more detail. I wanted to use it in the email, but wasn’t sure enough of the details.

    Toby – Has Oldham used any photos yet that would break the rule? Other than the ones he’s been using for years of course.

  17. chapeau du soleil Says:

    I think the gist of it was that Oldham lifted a photo from Liverpool.no and used it on his site. When the chap from Liverpool.no (is it Tage who runs it?) asked him to at least put a credit/acknowledgement next to it, Oldham threatened legal action. Quite what grounds he gave is beyond me. Will try and find out

  18. Chunky Says:

    Totby?

  19. Ted R. Says:

    Anyone popped over to the free site recently? It’s like a ghost town….

    Oldham’s exposure goes on.

  20. rupertinsider Says:

    Does anybody believe that Oldham will pay 12,000 for image rights this year?

    And why is he always wlilling to tell us how much the site costs but never how much he makes from it?

  21. rupertinsider Says:

    David Maddock has a story out in the Mirror that Birmingham have accepted LFC bid of 6 million for Pennant who is in contract talks today .

    If true it seems to be an exclusive. Nobody else, at this time, is running it .

  22. Toby Says:

    Yes Chuntky?

  23. The Outsider on the insider Says:

    Funny how neither the informer, wallet, horse or Katie knew about Pennant..

  24. univofchicago Says:

    “Anyone popped over to the free site recently? It’s like a ghost town”

    Check this out:
    http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?w=379&h=216&r=3m&z=&y=r&u=koptalk.org/&u=

    Their free forum section has nosedived to near 0 visitors!!!

  25. univofchicago Says:

    A great post today by Tom at est1892: http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=7981#post7981

    Should put to rest any doubts people had about the ian cotton letter.

  26. new hampshire exile Says:

    Rupert – we’ve had the pennant story running on ynwa for ages. Still think its going to happen. I believe TLW had the story at about the same time as well. I reckon the mirror has played it safe on this one until they were sure. Which would be a first 🙂

    Univofchicago: that link doesn’t work.

  27. rupertinsider Says:

    Birmingham have put out a statement that there is no deal because LFC have not offered enough. I’d be surprised if Maddock made it up – so maybe there is some last minute brinkmanship going on over the price.

    Interesting that the Liverpool Post/Echo said that LFC’s interest in Duff was only a PR ploy to pressure Birmingham and Duff had no right o say that he turned down LFC because no approach was made.

  28. new hampshire exile Says:

    Or maybe a duff story was put out in order to get the Alves deal back on the table but Birmingham thought it was aimed at them! Football, lying and bluffing seem to be linked a lot don’t they!!!

    Which brings us right back to Koptalk….

  29. rupertinsider Says:

    “Should put to rest any doubts people had about the Ian Cotton letter.”

    Only Oldham’s barrack-room lawyers tried to contrive doubts.

    I don’t know which emails Tom is referring to, but at this blog we have had cast-iron guarantees, stronger even than emails, of the main tenets of what Tom said in his post:

    1. Oldham has never met Rick Parry and never will.

    2. He has never met or spoken to Ian Cotton.

    3. He has never been offered positions at the official site – he is not the sort of person LFC would want to hire.

    4. He has no access to LFC’s press conferences or training sessions or private events.

    And that’s not the end of the story.

  30. Chunky Says:

    “From what Dunk has said above about having the press conferences covered etc, I think it’s clear that this photography company, Propoganda, might be one of his sources or third parties.”

    Think you’re spot on there.

  31. redtalisker Says:

    Of course the wallet and the informer knew about the Pennant transfer but with transfer negotiations reaching a make or break point they were asked by Parry/Cotton/the voice in dunk’s head not to comment in case the whole transfer was jeopardized. They will explain more later (later as in a few weeks all the plebs, sorry paying customers, would have forgotten and those who dare remind him, sorry them, will be banned for having more then a handful of brain cells). Informer/ Wallet are off for a hush hush meeting this afternoon with Mr GEE GEES and Mr Scrumpy so wont be available for any more questions.

  32. rupertinsider Says:

    New Hampshire: You mentioned the start of YNWA. I seem to remember that a lot of the ealry posters there were quite nasty towards David Maddock because he was perceived to be a friend of Robbie Fowler – who was also disliked by some of the early posters there. In fact they had been a large part of the campaign against Fowler on KT.
    I’m not certain because I stopped looking at LFC sites for some time and missed the actual break-away from KT and the setting up of YNWA. When I came across it I noticed all those anti-Fowler anti-Maddock posters there.

  33. univofchicago Says:

    new hampshire:

    the link works. have you registered?
    ill just paste his post here for your convenience. i am sure tom wouldn’t mind:

    *************************************************

    I know I said I wasn’t going to post another article on KT, but I’ve just received this info, and it’s too important to ignore:

    I’ve recently been emailed by someone in direct contact with some VERY senior figures at the club I’ve seen the emails, they are legit. The emails clarify recent claims made by Duncan Oldham on KT, here is a digest of what they say:

    1) Rick Parry HAS NEVER spoken to Duncan Oldham and has no intention of ever doing so.

    2) Ian Cotton HAS NEVER spoken to Duncan Oldham.

    3) The anfield hierachy are aware of KT but consider it to be “laughable” (direct quote).

    4) …As are Duncan’s claims to have a “gatemen” in KT’s payroll and to have CCTV cameras on Melwood.

    5) They are DISPLEASED that Duncan has been slagging off senior members at the club. Not happy bunnies. At all.

    The person who sent me these emails is totally legit, he knows stuff about anfield that only people closely involve with the club would know. He is also a personal friend of an “absolute legend”.

  34. Ted R. Says:

    Wow…. the shit is really hitting the fan…..

    If you think about it Oldham played it smart, like any good conman….Real them in with some guff about insider knowledge….Create Aliases who popped up every now and again with snippets that were rehashes from news and other forum posting….. Very smart con.

    The truth is spreading. The masses are fleeing, KT is dying a painful death.

  35. new hampshire exile Says:

    There may have been a dislike of Maddock – mainly because things leaking out about disruption at the club between Fowler and Management always seemed to get stirred by Maddock. Plus he seemed to be pals with Dunk – or was quoted by Dunk a lot. Whilst we didn’t leave Koptalk on bad terms – we were never going to be bosom buddies!!

    UoC

    Yes- I was logged in but I kept getting an error page (from the site) saying that I wasn;t authorized to view that page.

  36. rupertinsider Says:

    He was not a pal of Dunk – that was what Dunk wanted everyone to think. When it was clear that Maddock rejected Dunk’s advances and representations of their relationship, Dunk then started a sniping war against Maddock which continues to this day.

  37. rupertinsider Says:

    The BBC have changed their story now and have announced that the Penannt deal is done and he will be coming for 6.2 million. If true that confirms the David Maddox exclusive. There is no mention of Pongolle ever having been part of the negotiations.

    It also confirms the Elisha Scott (YNWA) scoop in terms of net “informers”.

  38. Dunk thinks I am his pal Says:

    I think we all know Elisha is a gem. No secret there, he is a close friend of SG.

    Insider, I will be writing to Mr Parry agin in the next month or so, if there is anything you want me to ask drop me a line.

  39. punt Says:

    ask him if the club plans take action against websites that exploit the international trademark and brand of Liverpool FC for commercial gain i.e Duncan

  40. Ashley tisdale Says:

    Hei! luogo che interessante avete fatto, ben cotto!

  41. musho Says:

    no we lose 😦 s………..t milan is lucky very lucky 😦


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